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Martin the Warrior
November 14th, 2002, 12:35 AM
Well, as Servone noted in his reminder thread, two major DVDs were released on Tuesday. Rather than try to discuss both Lord of the Rings and Star Wars in the same thread, though, I've decided to split them up into their own threads. I'll start off with Episode II.

I had very few complaints with it the first time around and found the movie to be even better upon the repeat viewing. Yes, there are still a few pacing problems and they needed a few of the conversation scenes they cut, but for some reason the movie seems to be more complete. Now, I'm not going to review the movie itself, because I did that back in May. I will, instead, be focusing on the DVD, save for one item: some of you may recall a bit of confusion over the list of "cuts" I made. On that list I noted that the, "I've heard this lesson before." "You haven't learned anything, Anakin." dialogue had been cut. Some of you (Slagar and Airemia, I believe) insisted that the lines were in the movie and hadn't been cut. Well, I listened on the DVD, I rewatched the scene twice, I even put on subtitles in case I missed something, and the lines still weren't spoken. I'm sure if the lines had ever been in the movie, they'd have made it to the DVD. So, I'll have to stand by my initial list of cuts and say that it's not there. ;)

The DVD is crystal clear, but I'd expect no less from LFL. The menus of disc one alternate between the various locales, like the E1 disc-- thus far I've encountered the Arena and Kamino, but I'm sure there are more. Disc one contains simply the movie and the commentary track, which I have to say disappoints me (for reasons I'll get to in a minute). The movie is exactly as it appeared in theatres, no scenes have been reinserted (one scene and a few Pod Racing bits were reinserting on the E1 DVD).

Now, disc two appears to have just as many goodies on it as E1 did. I was less impressed with menus than I was with E1's, but that's simply because they appear to be a tad more static. Then again, maybe it's me. The four trailers ("Breathing", "Mystery", "Forbidden Love", and the full trailer) are all on there, as is the "Across the Stars" music video (thankfully without the annoying MTV bumpers my recorded copy has) and a slew of TV commercials (mostly the quasi-MasterCard ones).

As I mentioned in the "reminder" thread, the documentary for TPM was one of my favorites because it wasn't a documentary. It was a "fly on the wall" affair and just, essentially, played back video recordings of the making of the movie. No one talked to the camera, no one really paid any attention to the camera, and there were no one-on-one interviews. It was a very engrossing piece to watch and you felt like a part of the process. Sadly, they didn't go that route this time. The "documentary" section includes two separate documentaries-- a fifty minute special called "From Puppets to Pixels" which details all of their CG work (most notably the creation of Yoda, Dexter Jettster, and the Kaminoans), and a twenty-minute special called "State of the Art: The Previsualization of Episode II".

Pixels is about the closest you come to the TPM documentary, but its very narrow focus on CG-animation means you lose a lot of the really interesting parts of the movie-making process. Nevertheless, the parts concerning the creation of Yoda are especially fascinating as you see the animators preparing a "pitch" for George Lucas (to convince him to do Yoda CG) by redoing the classic Empire Strikes Back scenes with the CG Yoda. They'll talk about how to mimic Frank Oz's puppeteering quirks, etc. And you'll learn why the "Begun the Clone War has." scene is referred to as "The Widowmaker". ;) (not to mention Yoda's disturbing connection to Kermit the Frog and Miss Piggy.)

State of the Art is a slightly less-interesting special focusing on how they used rough CG animatronics as guides for scenes like the Speeder Chase or the Clone Battle instead of traditional storyboards.

Next comes three nine-minute featurettes which are jumping-around-style interviews with the cast and crew, each focusing on one specific theme: "Story", "Love", "Action", in order.

Also included are eight of the deleted scenes. Personally, I was hoping that these would be on disc one so that we could have the option of reinserting them (to help solve the movie's pacing woes). As it stands, that's impossible via conventional means so reinserting the scenes would require a little creativity on the viewer's part (if they even cared enough). There isn't any one scene that I'd term incredible, that needed to be in the final cut. However, they do have a few of the "non-romance" Naboo scenes (including the dinner with Padme's parents), which I think would be welcome additions. I find myself disagreeing with every single reason Lucas and McCallum cited for cutting the scenes, though. And I'm more than a little disappointed that Obi-Wan's conversation with the Jedi Librarian about the fallen Jedi who'd left the Order and about Dooku himself didn't make the cut for the DVD.

Finally, there are the few sections I haven't finished exploring completely. The twelve web-documentaries are included, as are poster galleries (disappointingly, only the language of the text is different), a special concerning the sound of Episode II, and a few other features.

Probably the nicest extra is the inclusion of the "R2-D2: Beneath the Dome" mockumentary which aired on Fox earlier this year. For those of you who missed it, it's a "Biography" parody following the "life" of R2-D2: how George found him pursuing a stage career in college days (he usually wound up playing a trashcan) and gave him his big break. They've even got Francis Ford Coppola talking about how he wanted R2 for the Michael Corleone role in "The Godfather" (complete with a script which has a scribbled note from Coppola saying, "R2, be my Michael."); they've got Richard Dreyfuss reminiscing about how he and R2 were buddies whose friendship deteriorated when Dreyfuss made it big ("Jealousy."); Steven Spielberg about R2 wanting the Indiana Jones role, etc. Very funny piece to watch, excellent extra.

Anyway, that's what the DVD has to offer. A more fulfilling DVD than the recent Spider-Man release or even the August LOTR release. All SW fans are, of course, urged to get it (widescreen, everybody! ;)) as are all the rest of you. The movie didn't deserve half of the flak it received on the internet (of course, neither did TPM, but that's another story) and is always a fun watch (now we have to come to grips with the realization that there is only one empty space in the Star Wars saga to fill).

So, feel free to discuss the movie, the DVD, the special features, or to ask any questions.

As a point of interest-- the Toys R Us story (selling the DVD for $9.99) is, indeed, true.

Lord Servone
November 14th, 2002, 06:31 PM
I didn't get to buy AOTC this Tuesday at Wal-Mart, due to the fact that: 1. At least Best Buy was selling it cheaper 2. All they had was the paniscan version....movies like this need to be in widescreen. I'll probably pick it up when I go out this Saturday... hopefully, we'll be in the premisis of a Toys R Us that I may be able to stop by and pick it up...that is, if the deal is in effect here in Iowa...haven't seen any advertisements (though, I can see why...if they did announce it, they would be hard pressed to supply enough of the discs). Anyway, I will get the disc one way or another come Saturday...and when I do, and when I view it, I will make my opions on it known ;)

Treerose
November 14th, 2002, 06:45 PM
DVD sounds great... I can't wait to get a copy! :D


Nevertheless, the parts concerning the creation of Yoda are especially fascinating

Yoda!! Must see, must see!! ;)


The four trailers ("Breathing", "Mystery", "Forbidden Love", and the full trailer) are all on there, as is the "Across the Stars" music video

Ooh.. the Across the Stars Video. :D Watching great musicians like that playing and Williams conducting is incredibly fascinating. :D Even down to the visual stuff: you could turn the sound down and not listen to a note they're playing, but you could tell they're amazing professionals just by the way they handle their instruments. It'd have been great if the whole video was nothing but the musicians. <g> I do hope they appreciate what they were a part of, though. ;)


(now we have to come to grips with the realization that there is only one empty space in the Star Wars saga to fill).

I've been thinking about that. Ever since I really knew SW existed (i.e. the first time I came practically staggering out of the ANH theater with eyes like saucers, unable to come back from the stars to mundane reality <g>), there's always been a line of glorious SW movies coming down the pike. There's always been that magic of anticipation: the saga isn't ended yet, we're living in the days when it's being created, these are the golden days of SW, etc. The anticipation is great: it really helps make me appreciate each movie much more than if I could go to the video store and rent all six movies at once. But yeah... this next one's it. The end of an era, I suppose....actually, I guess when all the SW books are written (will that ever happen?), that'll really be the end of the era. :(

Tree

~~~~

"You can't possibly hear the last movement of Beethoven's Seventh and go slow."

~Oscar Levant, explaining his way out of a speeding ticket~

Martin the Warrior
November 14th, 2002, 07:07 PM
Servone
All they had was the paniscan version....movies like this need to be in widescreen.

Hear hear. I've been buying exclusively widescreen for a few years now and always seek it out when there's the option (which proved to be a pain in my VHS days).

I encountered that problem, as well, though. While I confirmed that Toys R Us was doing the $9.99 promotion (price tags didn't reflect this, but if you say you saw on the internet they were doing the promotion, they should admit it to you), they had completely sold out of the widescreen DVD (barely three hours after they'd opened). So, since another store had a great deal on the LOTR set, I just picked up AotC there. It was only an additional $6, so it wasn't that bad.

Baby Rollo
November 14th, 2002, 08:35 PM
I probably won't buy the DVD for Episode II. The main reason is because I don't like the movie. The pacing for the movie was too slow. Haydn Christian was so annoying and I absolutely hate the Jedi haircuts. Why? Because the rat tails and long hair are really annoying. I also don't like how futuristic Episode I and II look. The vehicles and droids are too curvy and shiny looking. The only thing that probably saved the movie was Jango Fett and the last hour. He isn't as cool as Boba Fett, but he does use his missile launcher--though I don't know why Obi-Wan didn't receive third degree burns after the missile exploded near him. The final hour was full of action and giant monsters and clone troopers. However, I hated the Yoda fight as well. It was embarassing watching him yell and jump around.

I'd rather buy Aliens on DVD. I want to watch the deleted scenes. Especially the one with the sentry guns.

Darkhood_343
November 14th, 2002, 08:47 PM
I don't have a DVD player...yet. I will though,when I get my PS2 for christmas.:D i personally did'nt like some parts of AOTC as I thought I would. It was too mushy:p The only scene I found seriously amusing was *Yoda pops out* Yoda: Me, correct? Me:uhh yeah. Yoda:Smart you are, giant badger creature.*Force blasts Yoda*Me:Annoying green blob. Oh and uhh Rollo your not old enough to be wacthing Alien GO TO YOUR ROOM!!!

Martin the Warrior
November 14th, 2002, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Baby Rollo
The pacing for the movie was too slow.

Funny. I thought the reverse-- things moved too quickly.


Haydn Christian was so annoying and I absolutely hate the Jedi haircuts. Why? Because the rat tails and long hair are really annoying.

That's a Padawan haircut, technically. ;) As for Christensen, I thought he did a pretty good job. Natalie Portman was the one who fell flat.


I also don't like how futuristic Episode I and II look. The vehicles and droids are too curvy and shiny looking.

A stylized golden age. To each his own.


However, I hated the Yoda fight as well. It was embarassing watching him yell and jump around.

"Embarrassing"? That's the first time I've seen anyone call it that. ;)

Gabool the Wild
November 14th, 2002, 09:49 PM
Well we got the DVD the other day. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to watch it yet, but I probably will Saturday.

Oh, and Martin, add another person to list of people who insist the lines:


"I've heard this lesson before." "You haven't learned anything, Anakin."

were in the movie. I just never said anything back in May for some reason or another. I am certain that they were in there because I remember there was that controversey going on and when I saw the movie I was like, "Hey aren't those the lines they're talking about"?

Baby Rollo
November 15th, 2002, 07:11 PM
I don't know why some people called AOTC the best Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back. I believe that AOTC was good on the action sequences, but it was horrible in the dialogue. I also hated the part with C3PO losing his head and body. That was just a poor excuse of visual comedy.


That's a Padawan haircut, technically. As for Christensen, I thought he did a pretty good job. Natalie Portman was the one who fell flat.

Well, I don't want to become a Jedi Knight if I have to get a haircut like a Padawan.

You thought Haydn Christensen did a good job? That guy was so annoying! He has that whiny voice and his acting is expressionless. His action sequences are also horrible. I hated the chase scene in the city place and I hated his fight with Count Dooku or whatever his name was.



"Embarrassing"? That's the first time I've seen anyone call it that

Yes, the Yoda fight was embarassing in my opinion. I wanted to leave the theater when I saw it. I thinkYoda would be a better character if he didn't fight at all. Or if he did fight, he won't jump arouond like crazy screeching like some crazy green short midget thing.

Martin the Warrior
November 15th, 2002, 08:59 PM
Gabool
Oh, and Martin, add another person to list of people who insist the lines:

This remains a very odd situation. Something that would get even stranger if the DVDs had the variation, as well. However, given that it wasn't in the theatre version here or on the DVD, I think I'll keep it on my list of cuts.


Rollo
I don't know why some people called AOTC the best Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back.

Probably because they liked it better than RotJ and TPM. ;)


I also hated the part with C3PO losing his head and body. That was just a poor excuse of visual comedy.

It was slapstick, I'll grant you that. But, for me, it worked.


Well, I don't want to become a Jedi Knight if I have to get a haircut like a Padawan.

That's just a rather silly reason to hate a movie, Rollo. ;)


You thought Haydn Christensen did a good job?

Yes I did, when he wasn't with Natalie Portman in a "romantic" scene. He was excellent during Shmi's death scene and the subsequent massacre. He's not the greatest actor, but he's skilled enough to pull the role off.


His action sequences are also horrible. I hated the chase scene in the city place and I hated his fight with Count Dooku or whatever his name was.

I disagree. His action scenes (fights, specifically) are the one area where I don't have any complaints with his performance. But, we obviously disagree.


I thinkYoda would be a better character if he didn't fight at all.

Once more we disagree. I think he's a far more potent character after the fight, showing that, despite his age, his mastery of the Force and the lightsaber is unequalled. That just because he doesn't fight doesn't mean he's incapable of fighting. And without actually showing at least one fight, there would never be that sense of awe, only the humorous vision in the mind's eye of the Yoda puppet waving around a "laser sword".


Or if he did fight, he won't jump arouond like crazy screeching like some crazy green short midget thing.

Well, I never really noticed any screeching, but I'll rewatch the scene to make sure. That being said, the fight simply would not have worked were a conventional approach to lightsaber battles taken. Yoda had to move around, otherwise Dooku would have been able to best him. And I think seeing Yoda running would have been a lot worse than hopping around. As it was, he was something of a whirling dervish and untouchable.

Treerose
November 15th, 2002, 10:31 PM
About the "I've heard this lesson before," "You haven't learned anything, Anakin" lines... were they in one of the trailers, but got cut from the movie itself? That would explain why people are remembering them...

And, Rollo, you've deeply insulted one of my very very very favorite characters of the SW universe in your comments about Yoda... ;) All I can say is, hear, hear to Martin's responses. :D

Tree

~~~~

Sir Thomas Beecham to a bass trombonist:

"Mr Hoyland, are you producing as much sound as possible from the quaint and antique drainage system you are applying to your face?"

Lyrian Aryns
November 15th, 2002, 11:22 PM
This is a little late, but since it's in this thread... I was wondering, why exactly is widescreen so much better? I mean, the black strips are kinda cool, but... *shrug* Just something I was curious about.

Slagar the Cruel
November 16th, 2002, 11:11 AM
I also hated the part with C3PO losing his head and body. That was just a poor excuse of visual comedy.I was surprised that I didn't hate it... I actually really liked that part. :)

I thinkYoda would be a better character if he didn't fight at all.I really liked the Yoda fight. But it's become less overwhelming after it's commercial over-exposition. After "Yoda Man" *shudders* it now seems almost hokey. Darn you, advertisers!

Originally posted by Treerose
About the "I've heard this lesson before," "You haven't learned anything, Anakin" lines... were they in one of the trailers, but got cut from the movie itself? That would explain why people are remembering them... I saw it twice in the theater. Two different theaters, too. I don't know why... but I KNOW what I saw. :slagar

Anyways, I'm waiting 'till Christmas for the DVD.

Martin the Warrior
November 16th, 2002, 12:36 PM
Treerose
About the "I've heard this lesson before," "You haven't learned anything, Anakin" lines... were they in one of the trailers, but got cut from the movie itself? That would explain why people are remembering them...

They were used in the trailers, in the music video, etc. When I saw the movie, though, they weren't there. Slagar, Airemia, and Gabool insist they saw it in there, though. ;) Given that the DVD supports my position, though... :D


Lyrian
why exactly is widescreen so much better? I mean, the black strips are kinda cool, but...

Way back when TV was just starting out, movies were being filmed in the TV-sized aspect ratio. Studios began to get worried, though-- why would someone go to movies when they could just watch TV at home? They decided they needed to give movie-goers something extra, an enticement. So, they began to film in widescreen, which had the same height aspect ratio, but the width was much longer than that of a TV. To fit these movies onto a TV, you'd either have to smoosh the picture (making everybody look very tall and thin) or chop off the sides. So, these days when you watch a full-screen movie on video or DVD, what they've done is chop off the sides of the screen so that they can utilize the full screen of a TV (it's the reason for the "This film has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit your screen." messages). The result means you're not seeing everything that the filmmaker intended.

Widescreen uses black bars to fit the full picture onto the screen of your television, so that you don't miss anything (a big plus in movies like LOTR or SW when there's so much going on in the background). As a plus with DVDs, if you've got a widescreen TV, then the black bars will be eliminated and you can watch the movie at its full-size (since the TV is capable of showing that aspect ratio).

That's why widescreen is better. ;)

Baby Rollo
November 16th, 2002, 03:47 PM
I actually like Yoda. I just thought that he should fight differently. Yoda should just stay on the ground a lot more.

Lord Servone
November 16th, 2002, 07:46 PM
I bought the DVD today...haven't watched any of it yet as I haven't been home long enough to do so...

Yeah, what Martin said ;)

I hated the 'Yoda Man' commercial! Makes me shake my head everytime I see it... xP

Martin the Warrior
November 16th, 2002, 09:28 PM
Lyrian-- for an example of Widescreen versus Full Screen (using LOTR as the subject), see: http://www.widescreen.org/examples/lord_rings_fellowship/index.shtml


Originally posted by Baby Rollo
I actually like Yoda. I just thought that he should fight differently. Yoda should just stay on the ground a lot more.

I've got a question for you, Rollo. How is a six-foot man fighting a stationary two-foot puppet less "embarrassing"?

Re: Yoda "screeching"-- I rewatched the scene and all Yoda does is grunt, the same way anyone would during a fight or a situation involving physical exertion. Nothing "crazy" about it.

Baby Rollo
November 17th, 2002, 03:04 PM
Yoda's not a puppet. He's a CGI thing.

I meant stationery as in not jumping around for wall to wall all the time. Just jumping, but not too much.

Lord Servone
November 17th, 2002, 05:28 PM
What I think Martin meant was (forgive me if I got you wrong, Martin), wouldn't it have been more "embarassing" to have Christopher Lee having to kneel down and fight a puppet with limited movements? That's why they made him CGI...I think anyway...so Yoda could move around more....if he were still a puppet, all he would've been able to do with a light saber would be the same thing he did to R2-D2 in Empire Strikes Back with his cane ("Mmph! Mine! Mine!")....and that would be just silly. Even more silly if they gave Yoda a very tall light saber so he could do battle with Dooku. He had to jump around...now I'm just giving you arguments you've already heard...:P

Oh, btw, I did buy the DVD yesterday. I looked around all the places, just to get a look of all the different locales they had for backgrounds. Thus far, the only things I watched on the extra disc have been one of the web documentaries about the Fett family, the Across the Stars video, and the Beneath the Dome trailer thing (funny indeed). I'll probably watch the movie tonight and then watch the rest of the extras later.

I had a complaint about the DVD though, as in it was very slow to load up and stuff...I didn't remember the Ep.1 DVD to load too slowly, but this one did....

Baby Rollo
November 18th, 2002, 05:46 PM
I'm not going to spend my money on Star Wars Ep. II. If there was an edited version with all of the love scenes and scenes with Haydn Christensen and Natalie Portman and the deathsticks scene and just about every non-action scene in the first hour or so(except for the clones). Sure it wouldn't make too much sense with major plot points missing, but the movie will go a lot faster and it will be more action-packed!

Maybe they should get rid of the Yoda fight at the end too. And the wedding scene and the light saber duel between Count Dooku and Anakin.

Martin the Warrior
November 19th, 2002, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Lord Servone
What I think Martin meant was (forgive me if I got you wrong, Martin), wouldn't it have been more "embarassing" to have Christopher Lee having to kneel down and fight a puppet with limited movements? That's why they made him CGI...I think anyway...so Yoda could move around more....if he were still a puppet, all he would've been able to do with a light saber would be the same thing he did to R2-D2 in Empire Strikes Back with his cane ("Mmph! Mine! Mine!")....and that would be just silly. Even more silly if they gave Yoda a very tall light saber so he could do battle with Dooku. He had to jump around...now I'm just giving you arguments you've already heard...:P

Very close. My argument was less about CG versus Puppet and more about moving around versus stationary. Item #1: Yoda cannot run (he can't even walk without a cane). To move around with any sort of speed, he'd have to jump around. Item #2: If you don't have him jump around, then you have him standing in place. Which means you've got a six-foot tall man fighting a two-foot tall thing that is stationary. Pretend to swordfight something 1/3 your size and I can almost guarantee you that the result will be humorous. Item #3: LFL was well aware of these two items and that's why they chose the hopping dervish. If there's one thing they drive home in the DVD documentary it's that this fight has the potential to be unintentionally funny. They needed to make the fight work. Item #4: If they did not have Yoda delivering something no other lightsaber fight has before, then there was nothing to say, "He's a Master, they're the students."

Ignoring any of these items would have made the fight "embarrassing" to far more people than Rollo. As it is, I think they nailed it.

Since lightsaber fights are the topic of the moment, might as well go one step further. How would everybody rank them? My personal favorite is and has always been Luke vs. Vader at the end of ROTJ. Greatest one there is. In full, I'd say:

1) Luke vs. Vader on the Second Death Star (RotJ)
2) Yoda vs. Dooku in the Geonosis Hanger (AotC)
3) Luke vs. Vader in Cloud City (ESB)
4) Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul in the Naboo Reactor (TPM)
5) Obi-Wan vs. Vader on the Death Star (ANH)
6) Qui-Gon vs. Darth Maul on Tatooine (TPM)
7) Obi-Wan & Anakin vs. Dooku in the Geonosis Hanger (AotC)

(Keep in mind one-sided lightsaber use, such as Luke vs. Jabba's Skiff and Obi-Wan vs. Jango Fett, doesn't count.)

Lord Servone
November 19th, 2002, 10:09 PM
Hmmm...hard choices. I think all lightsaber battles are well done in the movies...

I really liked the Anakin and Obi-Wan vs Dooku duel, but I thought it was too short, that's why it will be lowly ranked on my list....of course, I figure there will be a rematch in Episode 3 which will last longer...I have my ideas about that one...don't know if I'll share them just yet...

Anyway, I agree that ROTJ is the best of the duels..

1) Luke vs Vader (ROTJ)
2) Luke vs Vader (TESB)
3) Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul(TPM)
4) Yoda vs Dooku (AOTC)
5) Obi-Wan vs Vader (ANH)
6)Obi-wan and Anakin vs Dooku (AOTC)
7) Luke vs Vader dream sequence (forgot if its in ROTJ or ESB...does it even count)
8) Qui-Gon vs Maul on Tatooine (TPM)

Baby Rollo
November 20th, 2002, 02:55 PM
I like all of the light saber fights in the old Star Wars movies. The ones in Episodes I and II were inferior compared to the other movies. I just hope George Lucas can redeem himself with Episode III.

Treerose
November 20th, 2002, 06:11 PM
Ooh...lightsaber duels. :D My favorites are definitely RotJ, ESB, then ANH as well. (Although I'm not suggesting the other ones aren't as good; I'd just need to watch the first two episodes again before deciding. ;))

Heh... Today after orchestra rehearsal, some clarinet starting honking out Vader's theme....complete with wrong notes!!! I'm sure you can easily imagine that a certain flutist wanted to clobber him. ;)

Tree

~~~~

"When I am...completely myself, entirely alone...or during the night when I cannot sleep, it is on such occasions that my ideas flow best and most abundantly. Whence and how these come I know not nor can I force them...Nor do I hear in my imagination the parts successively, but I hear them at the same time all together."

~W. A. Mozart~

Martin the Warrior
November 20th, 2002, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by Lord Servone
I really liked the Anakin and Obi-Wan vs Dooku duel, but I thought it was too short, that's why it will be lowly ranked on my list....of course, I figure there will be a rematch in Episode 3 which will last longer...I have my ideas about that one...don't know if I'll share them just yet...

My thoughts exactly. I remember that it seemed longer in the book/script, as Anakin held on to the two-saber advantage for more than a few blows. Then there's the fact that we see Dooku fighting with two lightsabers in the documentaries... I think we got short-changed with the final version of the fight (thankfully Yoda was there. ;)).

As for Episode III-- I'd say there will be three lightsaber fights, at the most. Two are all but spoken-for-- Anakin vs. Obi-Wan will be the main attraction, it being the fight that leaves Anakin scarred, forcing him into the Vader armor (the prospect of seeing Darth Vader again is really what I've been looking forward to in the prequels since day one).

The second fight would be Count Dooku versus whoever. Lots of choices here. This could be the fight where Mace Windu dies, making him the opponent. Palpatine could have an "apprentice run-off", making Anakin the opponent (and victor). Yoda could rematch (I'd rather not, though). Or it could be against Obi-Wan or some other Jedi. Suffice to say, I think we can expect at least one more fight from Dooku.

The third fight, I'd say, we can expect during Anakin's extermination of the Jedi. At least one has to put up a fight, aside from Obi-Wan.

Now, the end to Episode III has also intrigued me for awhile. Right now, I can see it going one of five ways.

1) Obi-Wan, immediately after giving Luke to Owen and Beru, turns around and walks into the Jundland Wastes of Tatooine to await Luke's maturation.

2) Darth Vader standing alone, staring out a window/viewport (most likely contemplating the loss of his life-- friends, purpose, wife, child, mentor-- but resolute in his new role as the Emperor's servant).

3) Palpatine making the public declaration that he is Emperor (remember that the Senate will not be disbanded until ANH, though).

4) Palpatine and Vader conferring, referencing the construction of the "ultimate weapon" (the Death Star).

5) The movie jumps forward to one of the deleted scenes from ANH-- of Luke staring up through his binoculars, seeing the laserfire from the fight where Vader's Star Destroyer captures the Tantive IV. This could be built up to a nice musical crescendo, hopefully making use of the Binary Sunset theme, then going to the credit starfield but having the words, "The Saga Continues..." appear first.

Of those, I'm partial to 2 and 5, although I'd be happy with 1, as well. It seems to me that 3 would be rather anticlimactic and 4 a little too incomplete.

Anyway, any further thoughts?

Treerose
November 20th, 2002, 09:29 PM
5) The movie jumps forward to one of the deleted scenes from ANH-- of Luke staring up through his binoculars, seeing the laserfire from the fight where Vader's Star Destroyer captures the Tantive IV. This could be built up to a nice musical crescendo, hopefully making use of the Binary Sunset theme, then going to the credit starfield but having the words, "The Saga Continues..." appear first.

I like that. :D

I guess we don't know yet how many years Episode III will span? I'm wondering if Lucas is going to show Luke and Leia as kids (like Anakin's age in E1), or end it when they're still babies. I'd like to at least see how Leia ends up on Alderaan with Bail Organa. (I'm hoping that they wouldn't make him a cousin or something of Padme's, and thus have both kids "hidden" with family members... <g>)

Tree

~~~~

"What can you do with it? It's like a lot of yaks jumping about."

~Sir Thomas Beecham on Beethoven's 7th~

Martin the Warrior
November 20th, 2002, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Treerose
I'd like to at least see how Leia ends up on Alderaan with Bail Organa. (I'm hoping that they wouldn't make him a cousin or something of Padme's, and thus have both kids "hidden" with family members... <g>)

As I've understood SW lore over the years, Obi-Wan took Luke to Owen and Beru while Padmé kept Leia herself and hid as one of Bail Organa's servants (Bail being a friend of hers, presumably through the Senate). Upon Padmé's death, Bail took Leia as his own daughter.

One thing is for certain, though, Leia is with Padmé-- remember, she can recall her face in RotJ (something Luke is unable to do).

Episode III is the one to wait for, though.

Slagar the Cruel
November 21st, 2002, 03:55 PM
Lightsaber fights! Yay! ;)

1) Luke vs. Vader (ROTJ)
2) Luke vs. Vader (TESB)
3) Yoda vs. Count Dooku (AOTC)
4) Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul (TPM)
5) Obi-Wan vs. Vader (ANH... actually, the only thing I can remember about that one is the way it ended, and that the lightsabers looked wierd.)
6) Obi-wan and Anakin vs Dooku (AOTC... way too short.)
7) Qui-Gon vs Maul on Tatooine (TPM... although I'd hardly even call it a fight... just a short exchange of lightsaber strikes)

As for the ending of Episode III... around the time TPM came out, I remember reading that Episode III would end with the birth of Luke and Leia. So, unless that's changed (entirely possible), we WON'T be fast-forwarding to when Luke and/or Leia are adults... or children, for that matter... I don't think I'd want that to happen, anyways. Out of the possible endings Martin listed, I'd pick number 2.

You know, I've been wondering this ever since I saw AOTC a second time... why doesn't the jedi who Jango Fett shoots during the Geonosis battle scene disappear, instead of falling off the balcony, dead? We got a partial answer for Qui-Gon in Episode 2... being Dooku's apprentice, he wasn't all that good after all... but what'd that guy ever do? Was he actually evil, or something? Or was the whole disappearing death thing just inconvenient for that scene? :confused:

Martin the Warrior
November 21st, 2002, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Slagar the Cruel
As for the ending of Episode III... around the time TPM came out, I remember reading that Episode III would end with the birth of Luke and Leia. So, unless that's changed (entirely possible), we WON'T be fast-forwarding to when Luke and/or Leia are adults... or children, for that matter... I don't think I'd want that to happen, anyways.

As I recall, Lucas has been real cagey as to whether or not he'd even go that far. And given how fluid filmmaking is, I think it would be erroneous to rule anything out.


You know, I've been wondering this ever since I saw AOTC a second time... why doesn't the jedi who Jango Fett shoots during the Geonosis battle scene disappear, instead of falling off the balcony, dead? We got a partial answer for Qui-Gon in Episode 2... being Dooku's apprentice, he wasn't all that good after all... but what'd that guy ever do? Was he actually evil, or something? Or was the whole disappearing death thing just inconvenient for that scene? :confused:

I don't think that's the reason at all. If the Master is the standard by which we judge apprentices-- Dooku, being Yoda's, would be good. And likewise the chain would have to continue all the way down to Anakin, eliminating Darth Vader and the entire SW saga. The beliefs of the master do not dictate the morals of the apprentice. I've seen nothing to suggest Qui-Gon "wasn't all that good", and I think Dooku only left the Jedi Order after his death. He wouldn't have taken up with Sidious until after Maul's demise, anyway. ("Always two there are, no more, no less. A Master and an Apprentice.")

Now, the two instances we've seen of Jedi disappearing are Obi-Wan (ANH) and Yoda (RotJ). Both Jedi were prepared for their death, surrendered themselves to the Force. As we can surmise from Qui-Gon's death, simply hanging on after a killing blow is not enough time to surrender yourself to the Force. So, that means Qui-Gon, Vader, and the Jedi Jango shot would not disappear as Obi-Wan and Yoda did.