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Keyla
May 22nd, 2004, 05:13 AM
I thought I better start up a thread on this character as he seems to creep a bit into wider discussion regarding badgerlords. I don't know if it's just my personal experience, but he seems to have got a rather hostile reception compared to almost every other character in the book. Of course, there have been the obligatory claims that he's just "old mold" but there have been others who have felt him a touch morally repulsive. Especially in his final slaughter of the sea rats.

To me his portrayal was certainly on the bleaker side of Redwall and throughout he never seemed to overcome the isolation, which I felt Martha got over. He certainly wasn't merciful, but rather sometimes almost cold and calculating in his hunt for revenge.

However, do you think we can call him grey? Even though the abbeybeasts accept that he is unstoppable in his quest and that that is how he is, this does not stop Martha voicing the opinion that she would let them go and there is no typical "if he didn't kill them they would kill many others" arguement used. It would seem the Redwallers try and take a position of sympathy rather than one of condolance when it comes to the utter eradication of his foes. Yet in the chapter where the seige is broken even the abbot seems to be filled with a lust for blood.

Do you think Lonna's deeds go past what is "acceptable" in the Redwall code of revenge? If so, does this mean that we have a "grey" badgerlord? And how do you think Salamandastron will fair under his leadership?

Cheesethief
May 22nd, 2004, 11:21 AM
bj is NOT going to do a book with HIM again. no way.

Keyla
May 23rd, 2004, 08:30 AM
*Looks rather doubtfully at Cheesethief's crystal ball* Are you sure, or is this just your indirect command to Brian to never include him in a story and edit him out of "Rakkety Tam" and other already penned works? Personally, I would be quite interested to see him pop up as badgerlord in "Rakkety Tam", just to get a bit of a sense of how he fairs in his new position. However, I somewhat doubt this would happen. If he were badgerlord at the time I would imagine he would go out and fight the foe, as Cregga did, rather than sending out an army of 100 hares to be lead by some highland squirrel. Still he might be a bit more reserved than that particular badgerlady and decide that it were tactically better to stay back at Salamandastron.

But back to the point, do you have a particular reason for not wanting to see him again? Did you have any particular reason for disliking him?

Cheesethief
May 23rd, 2004, 10:48 AM
hE wOnT bE iN rAkKeTtY tAm.
cos its too far in the future.
and i dont hate lonna, i really loathe him.;)

Keyla
May 23rd, 2004, 12:58 PM
:confused: What info do we have that indicates that it is too far in the future? It is true that there will most likely be a new abbey leader and a new champion, probably Rakkety in the end, but Russano survived from the end of "Long Patrol" to "(The) Taggerung" as badgerlord and possibly longer. After all, their life spans a many times that of your average beast.

Out of curiosity, is there a reason for your loathing of Lonna?

Sandstripe the Wild
May 23rd, 2004, 03:57 PM
I haven't read Loamhedge, but I think Keyla's right. I am look at Russano and Cregga, they lived through several generations before Cregga was actually killed in Taggerung, even then Russano was still in his prime. The same can be said about Bella of Brockhall, Sunflash the Mace, and Lord Stonepaw.

Cheesethief
May 23rd, 2004, 04:20 PM
im sure i read somewhere that rak tam was miles into the future.
lonna...well i dont hate him really. but i prefer the traditional honourable badgerlord.

Sandstripe the Wild
May 23rd, 2004, 06:26 PM
No offense but Honor is overated, all it does is get you into trouble. Needless to say I don't believe in honor. Sorry just expressing my opinion.

Slagar the Cruel
May 23rd, 2004, 07:00 PM
I don't think Lonna is a "grey character" (I'm beginning to absolutely loathe that term). I just think he personifies the darker, more uncontrollable side of badgers which we had heard so much about but had never seen in a truly alarming light before. Lonna's behavior makes many warning spoken of badgers in earlier books ring many times truer.