View Full Version : Dragons in Redwall?

May 25th, 2004, 09:59 AM
Absurd as it may sound, could there be dragons in the world of Redwall? In Mossflower when Martin and co. went to Salamandastron they had already heard of the "fire lizards". maybe they HAD inhabited the mountain long ago. Also, the searats were scared away from the shores because of the dragons. Thoughts?

May 25th, 2004, 12:21 PM
well the creatures BJ uses are native to Britain...and dragons are a medieval British concept...so who knows.

I'd like him to bring the toads back. And vary up the lizard mix a bit more.

May 25th, 2004, 01:01 PM
I doubt Brian would use creatures such as dragons, unicorns etc. Of course, in the past there have been creatures, such as the Deepcoiler, which we aren't given a specific species for appear legendary, but there is generally a feasable biological explanation for what they are. I should imagine the nearest we'll ever get is a salamander, the creature whereafter the Fire Mountain was named. Brian doesn't seem to be against having foreign creatures in moderation, such as hamsters, moniter lizards and wolverines.

As to whether the "fire lizards" that inhabited the mountain at one time were dragons, I have two ideas: either they were salamanders as the name suggested or they are simply legends invented by badgerlords with no actual historical basis.

May 25th, 2004, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Cheesethief
Also, the searats were scared away from the shores because of the dragons. Thoughts?

Myths, myths, myths. How else would the badgerlords scare away enemies?

Slagar the Cruel
May 25th, 2004, 08:11 PM
To quote "Ask Brian", Vol. 1 -

12. Have you ever thought of using mythological creatures in your stories? Not that I don't adore them the way they are, but I'd like to see how the Redwallers would react if a dragon swooped in or a goblin began haunting the GateHouse! (Emma Hite, Bow, Washington)

No - I have used creatures that I know mostly and tried to imbibe mystery here and there into some creatures whose species is not specified, but I am not a fan of sword and sorcery so that I will never have goblins or dragons or any purely mythical creatures in my world of Redwall.
Straight from the man himself. There will be no dragons in the Redwall series - which I personally find quite relieving.

May 26th, 2004, 01:09 AM
Yes, it wouldn't be the same if real dragons were in Redwall. 'Fire Lizards' is probably referring to an old myth that gives a reason as to why lava (probably) came out of it at one time, as it was, I believe, formerly a volcano.

May 26th, 2004, 10:09 AM
no, i would hate to see a dragon. redwall would turn into another corny worked up piece of rubbish. but i was wondering if the concept has ever been realised in the world of mossflower.

May 30th, 2004, 08:51 PM
BJ should stick to real creatures not dragons. And just imagine the size of dragons to say a mouse. Now that'd be scary.

October 27th, 2005, 02:13 PM
Yeah, if he added dragons, he would be seen as trying to rip off Eragon (another good book, only longer and more violent).

October 27th, 2005, 07:20 PM
Only if Eragon has mice in it. I've never read it so I don't know.

But as for the dragon idea... it would be neat, but it would completely ruin the feel of the books.

Yes, I know this topic is over the dreaded year mark, but there's no real harm in it.

Ferahgo the Assassin
October 27th, 2005, 07:42 PM
Something else ripping off Eragon? :lol: There's a scary thought.

Lonna Bowstripe
October 27th, 2005, 08:41 PM
And more violent? Ah, but Eragon doesn't have discriptions like in the first chapter of High Rhulain or the chapter in Redwall when we first meet Cluny.

October 27th, 2005, 09:12 PM
Yeah, if he added dragons, he would be seen as trying to rip off Eragon (another good book, only longer and more violent).
Dragons have existed since humans have been around. Paolini is hardly the first to use them.

As for dragons in Redwall, I'm against it. Unless Jacques put in several other fantasy creatures, having a dragon would just seem out of place.

October 28th, 2005, 03:45 PM
You'd have to pop in a few elves, an army of Deepcoilers, rotting zombies, and a Balrog. Can you imagine Matthias trying to beat a Balrog?

Lonna Bowstripe
October 29th, 2005, 12:19 PM
Well the sword of Martin is magical, remember?

October 29th, 2005, 12:38 PM
I just dont think I could see dragons in redwall.

October 29th, 2005, 06:43 PM
I hope nobody has put this yet but here goes....

Young Dinny said the Old Dinny (his grandpa) knew of "fire lizards"

October 29th, 2005, 07:41 PM
Young Dinny said the Old Dinny (his grandpa) knew of "fire lizards"

Although I'm pretty sure that in one book a hare sang a song to a dibbun, and then the dibbun tried to imitate him but used "dragon(s)" in place of something else. That's the only mention of dragons in Redwall that I can recall.

Ember Nickel
October 30th, 2005, 05:24 PM
I think it's Rollo's "dragons" and "flagons" in Mattimeo.

October 30th, 2005, 06:58 PM
I think it's Rollo's "dragons" and "flagons" in Mattimeo.
Hmm. Looks like I was partially wrong. Rollo did screw up the lyrics, but not in the way I thought.

Basil's & Ambrose's original song.

O if I feel sick or pale,
What makes my old eyes shine?
Some good October ale
And sweet blackcurrant wine.
I'd kill a dragon for half a flagon,
I'd wrestle a stoat to wet my throat,
I'd strangle a snake, all for the sake
Of lovely nutbrown beer....
Nuhuhuhut broooowwwwwnnnnn beeeeheeeyer!

Rollo's version.

Fight a flagon an' drink a dragon,
Gizzard a lizard an' split his blizzard,
Ride a spider for good ol' cider,
Gooooood oooooold ciderrrrrrrr!

Lonna Bowstripe
October 30th, 2005, 09:21 PM
high rhulain spoiler
in hr, it says frunk ended up a dragon slayer when he killed slouthanug.
and yes, i can't use capitals because i'm using an onscreen keyboard.

November 2nd, 2005, 01:42 PM
Who knows? BTW, I hope you all know that salamanders cannot breathe fire, and are not born by fire. That was a myth to explain how salamanders were crawling away from a fire (they were in the logs). And dragons would just ruin Redwall. Dragons will be part of the legends of Redwall, but will they find a dragon? I think not.