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LordTBT
May 31st, 2004, 03:18 PM
This is to post some plotlines you'd like to see in Redwall, that we have not seen.

My #1 one I'd like to see is having vermin actually infiltrate the Abbey, and lock the Abbeydwellers out, and they have to get the bad guys out. Not once in the entire series have vermin successfully gotten into Redwall and/or maintained a position in it. I'd really like to see that.

Thoughts.

Keyla
May 31st, 2004, 03:34 PM
I'd personally love to see Salamandastron back in action. Of course, we'd need to get rid of about nine tenths of its population in order to make the story credible. A plague, perhaps?

If I were to write a new tale I'd want to include a seer who suffers because of her visions. The idea I've been mulling over is one of where in a seige the warlord tells his seer daughter to try and perceive the future and know the destiny of the creatures inside the abbey. She is against this and knows it will hurt her to do this but she eventually consents for a reason I have not yet formulated. She does but becomes linked to the passions and hatreds of those she links into and is eventually driven mad and while she procliams what will happen to her family and the ones she loves she can do nothing as all now look upon her as demented.

Anyway, I doubt that would happen in a Redwall book, but it might work in the fan-fic I'm mulling over at the moment.

Cheesethief
May 31st, 2004, 05:22 PM
how about a story where we see a dwelling in the north, possibly the mine in redwall, where day to day business is conducted, but the miners take up arms when vermin take advantage of nearby noonvale's hospitality and take over and fortify the shady spot.

Nora the Rover
May 31st, 2004, 08:57 PM
I'd like to see more action in the Southsward area. It seems like an interesting sort of place with it's own history.
I had a weird sort of plot idea; a tyrannical king in leauge with a vermin warlord, espionage, the king's wife and a lesser military leader plotting against him while trying to maintain the image that they're on his side. Meanwhile, Salamandastron hears of the problem of the warlord and the threat to Mossflower and surrounding areas. Unfortunately, the hares are without a badger lord and leader, so a brave hare has to step forward and take charge.
I dunno, it just seems interesting...

Cheesethief
June 1st, 2004, 05:18 AM
hmm. im thinking rakety tam could cover the tyrannical king aspect.

Keyla
June 1st, 2004, 10:13 AM
Do you mean Gulo or the Squirrelking? If you're thinking the latter then I would have to say I'm doubtful. However, bad a ruler he is I can't really see Brian writing an evil king of squirrels. After all, he's described as foolish which could encompass a whole load of things from incompetance to tragic egotism.

But speaking of "Rakkety Tam", I think there's quite a possibility that the second part of Nora's fantasy might come as reality. When the army of hares comes up there is no mention of a badger lord or lady. Of course there is the possibility that we have some destiny touched beast who is questing for Salamandastron, but wouldn't we expect a plot line of that kind of significance to have been mentioned thus far? Of course, as I seem to remember has been discussed before, we could end up with Lord Lonna but the more I think about it the more possible a lack of badger ruler sounds.

LordTBT
June 1st, 2004, 04:03 PM
I personally would be crestfallen if some beast other than a badger ever RULED the mountain of fire. I mean a big hare taking charge of the other hares that is understandable, its a communal thing. But like a shrew ruling the mountain or something? Uh no.


Edit:

which reminds me, while on the subject of shrews, I'm surprised there hasnt been a book entitled 'Guosim', which focuses mainly on them. It would be a good storyline I imagine. I mean we've got 'Pearls of Lutra' about otters, 'Salamandastron' about the mountain, how bout a book on the Guosim(not the Guoraf because thats a new concept)?

Cinnabarr Rivershell
June 1st, 2004, 05:23 PM
Personally, I would like to see some more classic redwall books like Lord Broktree. I want to read about the legends, instead of just hearing about them in a new in-the-future book.

I also agree with Nora that we should see more of Southsward. Castle Floret, if I remember correctly, was a pretty huge place. I'd like to see a book that takes place before Martin the Warrior or the existance of the abbey, but it only focuses on Southsward and Castle Floret. A whole new area for BJ to explore in his wrting, plus a whole new area for his readers to explore.

LordTBT
June 1st, 2004, 05:44 PM
agreed. I have always said I love the history tales the most.

Nora the Rover
June 1st, 2004, 06:33 PM
Having a hare, (or other creature), in charge of Salamandastron and surroundings seems interesting, but rather strange. Basically, the hare would be more of a military leader than a ruler; taking action in a time of warfare or whenever it was needed. I've always wondered what Salamandastron would be like without a badger lord. It makes the situation and plot seem a little more tense and interesting.
I've also always wanted to see more of Southsward and it's history. The plot that I thought up probably isn't the best, but it's neat to think of all of the numerous possibilities for stories that Southsward has.

Kediassa
June 1st, 2004, 08:20 PM
A love plot, maybe. Salamandastron going back in action would be excellent, and TBT: that's an excellent idea! A female warrior (badger ;)) would be excellent for the job. The thought of a plague; nah. Too original. I still think of Salamandastron, a female badger wanting to be a warrioress, everyone disaproves of what she wants. So the female badger leaves and finds someone who she loves, who turns out to be the villian that takes over Salamandastron. She goes home to find her love ruling the mountain. He locks her in a prison; and later she escapes, killing the villian or "her love". Sooner, everyone creature is back in Salamandastron; accepting the fact she's more than a female badger, but a warrioress.

LordTBT
June 1st, 2004, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Kediassa
A love plot, maybe. Salamandastron going back in action would be excellent, and TBT: that's an excellent idea! A female warrior (badger ;)) would be excellent for the job. The thought of a plague; nah. Too original. I still think of Salamandastron, a female badger wanting to be a warrioress, everyone disaproves of what she wants. So the female badger leaves and finds someone who she loves, who turns out to be the villian that takes over Salamandastron. She goes home to find her love ruling the mountain. He locks her in a prison; and later she escapes, killing the villian or "her love". Sooner, everyone creature is back in Salamandastron; accepting the fact she's more than a female badger, but a warrioress.

Eh. I'm not a big fan of the female warriors. I think Cregga was dragged out through 3 books. 3 books!
Much less love stories between different species? Especially like a badger and a stoat? Would the kids be called "boats"? har har
Wouldnt really uh work imo. Well who knows...i mean we've seen "wearets"...but its just kind of incomprehensible. I disapprove of the interspecies love thing.

While on the subject of Salamandastron, my favorite part is the wall with the carvings in Brocktree's tomb....and whens the last time we even saw that? In LB ?

Kediassa
June 1st, 2004, 08:35 PM
Why do villians always have to be the same creature? I think it's time BJ should put a "good" animal as a bad creature. Because everyone is different, and BJ should show that to the people who read his books. The badger could of been raised by a horde of vermin, and he was taught to be cruel.

LordTBT
June 1st, 2004, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Kediassa
Why do villians always have to be the same creature? I think it's time BJ should put a "good" animal as a bad creature. Because everyone is different, and BJ should show that to the people who read his books. The badger could of been raised by a horde of vermin, and he was taught to be cruel.

Yes, this has already been discussed. I strongly desire to see an evil badger....but if you look in Ask BJ at redwall.org:



42. Will you ever have any really good vermin or bad woodlanders in any of your stories? (Peter Johnson, Pennsylvania)

No! The goodies are good and the baddies are BAD, no grey areas.



Edit:

Another thing I noticed! The mention of "dark forest" in the series hasnt happened in at least 6 books. At least!

Cinnabarr Rivershell
June 1st, 2004, 10:20 PM
I agree with everything TBT has said so far. Inter-species love affairs----- I HOPE, NO, I PRAY IT NEVER HAPPEN!----- As for you dear Kediassa, I have a question. The female badger, who everyone is putting down just because she wants to be a "warrioress", why would anyone put her down? I mean it doesn't matter if she is a female badger. She is still a badger and can probably crush anyone in her path, unless both of her legs aren't working, then she would be wise to listen to everybeast and leave her dream of being a "warrioress" behind.

Oh. And by the way TBT, I really liked that comment on "boats." It made me chuckle and then it made me chuckle some more.

Cheesethief
June 2nd, 2004, 10:03 AM
er
mara
salamandastron
kediassa
duh

or at least kinda

Keyla
June 2nd, 2004, 12:08 PM
TBT, out of curiosity, do you have a particular reason for not liking female warriors? I've always liked the way that unlike many other authors, who seem to favour an exclusively male set of heroes, on the odd occasion including the token female, Brian has heroines who are not simply passive or one-dimentional attempts at inclusion but characters with depth equal to that of the male ones.

LordTBT
June 2nd, 2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Keyla
TBT, out of curiosity, do you have a particular reason for not liking female warriors? I've always liked the way that unlike many other authors, who seem to favour an exclusively male set of heroes, on the odd occasion including the token female, Brian has heroines who are not simply passive or one-dimentional attempts at inclusion but characters with depth equal to that of the male ones.

They don't present the same strength, power, awe, or anything that the males do.

Example:
Boar the Fighter vs. Cregga ?

Boar, no contest.

Samkim vs. Triss?

Sam, no contest.

Felldoh
June 2nd, 2004, 05:09 PM
42. Will you ever have any really good vermin or bad woodlanders in any of your stories? (Peter Johnson, Pennsylvania)
No! The goodies are good and the baddies are BAD, no grey areas.

I may just be taking that quote differently than what he meant, but is he pretty much saying there will never be a good vermin or bad woodlander? Yeah... okay, but what about Blaggut, Romsca, and possibly even Veil? And for the generaly good woodland species, what about Druwp and...uhh... he's the only example I can think of, but I'm sure you get my point. It just irritates me though, I think species like ferrets and foxes rock, but their always percieved as the bad guys it seems.

But still, I must say, I like alot of the plot ideas on this thread. The only plot I'd love to see myself would be one of the vermin species as the main hero, namely a ferret or fox. :D

Kediassa
June 2nd, 2004, 09:36 PM
TBT, men are always dominating history; I had enough of the main characters of most of BJ's books males. Mariel was about the only true female-warrior in the Redwall Series. And Cynn, some people disbelieve that females can do somethings, like not to long ago in my local newspaper a women debated with a few coaches on a football team because she wanted to be apart of the team. And Dear Abby's letter from a girl who wanted to be president of the US but was teased by others and teachers is also another example of how many girls are not wanted. Males just dominate! Therefor the hares and Lord badger (who may even be her father) could disagree of a female participating in battles when she should be in the kitchens cooking.

Also, Cheesetheif, what do you mean? Mara, me? What?

Slagar the Cruel
June 2nd, 2004, 10:15 PM
Something that I like about the heroines in the Redwall series is that there's never really a fuss raised about their gender. I can't remember a time when a gaggle of stereotypical non-believing males mocked a female's abilities, only to be proven wrong by the heroine proving that she can fight with the best of them" I'd find something like that rather demeaning, and I often do when it's used in other pieces of fiction. Instead, strong female characters are introducted naturally in the series, without any forcing of "girl power" into the books.

LordTBT
June 2nd, 2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Kediassa
TBT, men are always dominating history; I had enough of the main characters of most of BJ's books males. Mariel was about the only true female-warrior in the Redwall Series. And Cynn, some people disbelieve that females can do somethings, like not to long ago in my local newspaper a women debated with a few coaches on a football team because she wanted to be apart of the team. And Dear Abby's letter from a girl who wanted to be president of the US but was teased by others and teachers is also another example of how many girls are not wanted. Males just dominate! Therefor the hares and Lord badger (who may even be her father) could disagree of a female participating in battles when she should be in the kitchens cooking.


i wasnt saying that though. Ironically, my mother's varsity letter is in football(she was the statustician for the team and traveled with them etc)
But 1 girl on an all guy team wouldnt work. She'd either
a) be singled out by other teams and be tackled all the time
b) wouldnt be tackled, for fear of suit being filed for something sexual

It would have to be an all female football league, and who really wants to watch that? I mean look how much funding the WNBA wasted, and its horrible. Thats why most high schools and colleges have a few Powder Puff games that everyone goes to for fun.

anyways, it's masculine nature to dominate. In all honesty, while a woman could do a a decent job as president (FDR's wife did it), I wouldnt feel comfortable in the face of danger with a woman leading. And what kinda man wants to be known as the "first husband" ?

finally, there are some religions and cultures that still instruct that women are to cook and take care of their man. What is wrong with that??! Heck, in Islam, that's taught, but additionally the woman gets to keep her paycheck, and the man has to pay all the bills etc himself. If you are a female, and can't cook, I want to know what about yourself you consider feminine, honestly. I know how to cook, and I'm a darn good one at that, but being a good cook is a mandatory requirement when it comes to a future mate(which will be female).


wow what an entirely OT post.

Martin the Warrior
June 11th, 2004, 09:32 PM
All subsequent posts on the subject of women earning less than men have been split out into a new thread entitled "Women and Men" and moved to General Discussion. Continue it there. Redwall threads on the Redwall discussion board should remain on topic.

Cheesethief
June 12th, 2004, 04:08 AM
yes! good!
i would love a story about loamhedge before the plague, possibly with an epilogue of the abbess and others leaving. maybe they plant the lord of mossflower on the way.

Cinnabarr Rivershell
June 12th, 2004, 06:48 PM
I would like to see another sword that is suposedly the sister/brother sword of Martin's sword. Boar could have made two swords out of that fallen rock/star. Wouldn't it be cool to have a battle with Martin's sword and another sword just as strong. oooohhhh. It could have a green pomell* stone instead of red. Now that would be cool!

LordTBT
June 13th, 2004, 03:51 AM
i would love a story about loamhedge before the plague, possibly with an epilogue of the abbess and others leaving.

thats what i was expecting from Loamhedge

*grumbles*

Cheesethief
June 13th, 2004, 11:57 AM
me too.
and cinn, good one! it is said again and again that the sword is not magic and can be used for evil too, so another sword falling into the hands of vermin would be great. though good would win, and the other sword would be lost in the waves of the eastern sea...

Felldoh
June 15th, 2004, 05:53 PM
Why not make a story where evil wins for once? Maybe not outright, but more in the way of the movie Seven.

Mariel StormRider
June 23rd, 2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by LordTBT
They don't present the same strength, power, awe, or anything that the males do.

Example:
Boar the Fighter vs. Cregga ?

Boar, no contest.

Samkim vs. Triss?

Sam, no contest.

Um...this might be starting this up again, so if it is, Martin, delete it. But I want to know. What proof did the books ever give that Boar the Fighter would easily outmatch Cregga or Triss would be defeated by Samkin?

And yes, males may be stronger, but have you ever heard the quote- when the battle strength of a female is less than a male's they are quicker, lighter, and faster."

Keyla
June 24th, 2004, 02:36 PM
I think TBT was referring to the sense of strength of awe and strength he got from reading rather than which of them would win in a battle. Personally, Cregga filled me with greater "awe and wonder" than Boar and was, to me, far better developed through the course of the books, though she obviously had longer for that. These kind of things are very subjective; my favorite characters are a mix of males and females.