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Martin the Warrior
November 25th, 2002, 11:01 PM
I've recently had to defend the Redwall Television Show from quite a few accusations. This in and of itself is nothing new, to me or to some of you. It's made me think about adding a page to RWTV, though, that disputes (or at least puts into perspective) all of the complaints naysayers have with the show.

For example:


Martin abandons his sword!

Martin doesn't abandon his sword, he swears not to use it to kill another beast. This creates no problem for Mossflower, as the sword is broken and unusable for much of the story. Furthermore, Tsarmina is responsible for her own death, Martin did not kill her with his sword.

Pallum's a girl!

Yes, the character's gender was changed. Pallum's role, however, was not, making this change superficial with no negative impact on the plot whatsoever.

And so-on.

Some of you have heard plenty of complaints and have defended the show. Those complaints, though, are what I need. So, my question is: What complaints have you encountered? You don't have to include a response to the complaint, although you're certainly welcome to.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

Lord Servone
November 25th, 2002, 11:52 PM
The complaints I heard the most about were about "Rose's ponytail" and "The tickling torture of Skalrag". Then there is the complaint about Badrang looking like a wolf...

dandin1
November 26th, 2002, 07:15 AM
Badrang looked like a wolf? I didnt notice that...
To find arguments, all you have to do is go to Starry's, you'll find a bunch, I promess!

Didnt like how they cutted parts of the book, and replaced them with other things that never happened, they did that alot in Redwall

Airemia
November 26th, 2002, 01:26 PM
Yeah, I've heard the 'Rose has a ponytail' one, and mostly the 'Badrang looks like a wolf' one. I don't think I've made too many complaints about the show. At least none that I can remember....

VanessaNB
November 26th, 2002, 02:35 PM
I've heard
"Ponytail!"
"Pallum"
"Abandon sword!"
"Teh voices stink!"
"The characters don't look/sound exactly like I imagine them!"
Martin, I've read your arguement at Terrouge, and some of it is just stupid. Some of the excueses against the show make no sense whatsoever, mostly because they were to busy screaming to actually pay attention to the show.
And I STILL haven't found a convincing arguement against "Ponytail". Really.:rolleyes:
I also tried to join in at Terrouge by registering at their forum, but when I posted the computer messed up (badly).

Slagar the Cruel
November 26th, 2002, 04:01 PM
I saw the Terrouge debate, too... I was thinking about adding my two cents, but... hey, why don't I do that next? ;)

Anyways, complaints I often hear are "the animation/voices is/are bad" (which is an OPINION, and one I disagree with :p), "Rose's ponytail (I don't think headfur exists in "Redwall"... but how the heck would something like that destroy the series?), not enough gore (and I don't mean the ex-vice president of the US. ;)), and "it's just BAD because it doesn't fit with what I imagined, which is of course how Redwall is meant to be!" Well, I made the last one up myself. But some (not saying who) teeter on the edge of it... ;)

Martin the Warrior
November 26th, 2002, 04:50 PM
Thanks, everyone. Keep 'em coming! :D


Vanessa
And I STILL haven't found a convincing arguement against "Ponytail".

I have to say, that one has always mystified me, as well. Back when the Redwall Art Gallery was still running, nearly every contributing artist there drew headfur on the characters. There was very little outcry and only a few complained. Most of the "greats" of the Gallery chose to use headfur, as well. It's a style issue. So long as they're not using dreadlocks, I don't mind in the slightest.


Martin, I've read your arguement at Terrouge, and some of it is just stupid. Some of the excueses against the show make no sense whatsoever, mostly because they were to busy screaming to actually pay attention to the show.

It was an amusing debate while it lasted. ;) I'm done with it, though. I've made my case. Nothing can be accomplished by continuing to debate with someone who feels the need to get personal. So, I'll let the readers decide.

The Red Badger
November 26th, 2002, 09:26 PM
"Amusing". . . good description. Maybe it's just me, but he seemed to ignore every question you put to him. Oh, well. :p

We cannot forget the immortal, "All the bad guys look the same!"

Or "They said Matthias is 13 years old!"

Or "They had a CIRCUS in Redwall!"

Or "Felldoh's tail was different colors!" (I DID convince you that was okay, RIIIIIIGHT, Sarkin? :rolleyes: )

Oh, didn't someone complain about the birds being too big, too? Was that Dakota?

Lord Servone
November 26th, 2002, 09:31 PM
I read the thing and came to the decission that many of the opposititors of the show were foo's that couldn't make a strong argument as in why the hated the show. Some of their responses just made me shake my head. I was ammused by those that saying their opinion of it was consorting (is that the right word) for the vast majority :/.
Kind of reminded me of what one of my characters said in one of the novels I'm working on... "When I make a statement, it is not an opinion...it is fact. No...it is not fact, it is law."

I would've replied to the message but Martin pretty much said what I would've said (and quite well too) and a majority of the other participants were getting kind of immature about the whole debate...

Airemia
November 27th, 2002, 03:01 PM
I think Dakota complained about the birds, but I agreed with her. They were... Huge.

Slagar the Cruel
November 28th, 2002, 06:43 PM
But they're supposed to be big... actually, in the circus episode, there are tiny owls, as small to the mice as owls would be to us. It was... slightly messed up. X_X

VanessaNB
November 29th, 2002, 05:44 PM
I think the "extra" episodes were pretty cool. They weren't horribly bad, and you can't have a TV show based on a book without changes. Where's the fun?
Coming home and finding your mom decided to paint your room hot pink wouldn't be such a pleasant change, but whaddya expect from a mom?

Lord Servone
November 29th, 2002, 08:33 PM
There was also that one bird that Killconey used to spy with. I was OK with the Wild Ivy episode actually...I didn't like the spice seller dormouse (can't remember his name at the moment) episode however...his role was too similar to Plumpen's imo.

Baby Rollo
December 1st, 2002, 01:55 PM
So long as they're not using dreadlocks, I don't mind in the slightest.

What's wrong with dreadlocks? I think they're cool.

The only complaint I have with the television series are the missing scenes that included my ancestor. Why didn't they include the scene with Baby Rollo cooking pancakes? Why?

VanessaNB
December 1st, 2002, 04:52 PM
To save time? But it was worth it to see him singing "Seeker flounder inner stones, ohoi, ohoi..."
I prefer the spice seller episode. It sounded like Plumpen's role in the book, but other than that it's pretty well writen.

LadyBeelze
December 1st, 2002, 05:36 PM
I don't have much to say becuase i think the redwal tv series were done very good. But heres a couple things i've always wondered...

The size of the characters are out of proportion. Shouldn't a hare be at least 3 times bigger than the mice, same with the stoats, weasals, foxes, etc.

They forgot a lot of scenes that i loved in the book and added stuff that never happened.

Thats pretty much it though. The animation is great, the voice actors fit, hmmm

Martin the Warrior
December 1st, 2002, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by Baby Rollo
What's wrong with dreadlocks? I think they're cool.

In Redwall? I won't even go there. :rolleyes:

Baby Rollo
December 2nd, 2002, 02:06 PM
How about Afros? Afros are cool. At least they were in the 70's...but they're coming back now.

Madd The Sane
December 2nd, 2002, 04:40 PM
I find it very hard to acept that there would be Afros at Redwall. As for your ancestor: Who gives a hoot? I am content with how Redwall is portraid "as is", so there :p

VanessaNB
December 2nd, 2002, 05:03 PM
I think I drew a stoat with an afro once. It was creepy.
Beelzebumon: Relative size means nothing, really. Everyone imagines it different.

Glenner
December 2nd, 2002, 06:24 PM
Oh, I have my gripes about the series every now and then (changing pallum's gender is unforgivable) but I do enjoy the series. Its not an excellent adaptation, but still good. :)

Darkhood_343
December 21st, 2002, 01:20 AM
Oh, I have my gripes about the series every now and then (changing pallum's gender is unforgivable) but I do enjoy the series. Its not an excellent adaptation, but still good.:)
How come I almost always end up agreeing eith you Glen?

Glenner
December 21st, 2002, 11:04 AM
I don't know. Maybe its a conspiracy.;)
Oh, and can someone give me the link to the debate about the Redwall series, if you can find it. I wanna take a peek at it.

Darkhood_343
December 21st, 2002, 11:54 AM
I don't know. Maybe its a conspiracy.;) I think so.;)

Glenner
December 21st, 2002, 03:45 PM
Hhee.;)
Oh yeah, and nevermind about the link, I found it.

Dakota
December 23rd, 2002, 09:09 PM
You know, I don't really have any big complaints. Maybe I'm just passive or something, but nothing made me very upset. However, I DID think Felldoh's voice was a bit too young sounding.
Regarding this headfur stuff. Personally I was very happy to see Rose with some headfur. She looked much more like a girl mouse, and much prettier then Cornflower did. Yes, I know regular mice do not grow headfur like that but they also don't talk or build abbeys. They've already been significantly "humanized" so why not add headfur?
Now when the girls start having shaved legs and lipstick, they're going to far.

Darkhood_343
December 24th, 2002, 08:19 AM
Dakota
Now when the girls start having shaved legs and lipstick, they're going to far.
*shudders*

VanessaNB
December 24th, 2002, 05:48 PM
In Britain, it's sexy for women to have hairy legs. Explains my teacher and her accent.
But Felldoh's voice wasn't always so light, it got deep sometimes. Puberty:rolleyes: Rose's headfur didn't really bother me that much. There are changes that annoy me, but I'd still watch it again and again.

Cale Yin
December 26th, 2002, 10:45 AM
Heh heh... Mice shaving their legs... In Redwall... hee... :rolleyes:

VanessaNB
December 26th, 2002, 04:59 PM
Heh heh...Mice shaving their legs...
Hairless mice:D There are long hair mice too. You need to comb their fur.
Would that qualify as headfur?;) It shouldn't, cause then RWTV misers would have nothing to complain about.

Dakota
December 28th, 2002, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Airemia
I think Dakota complained about the birds, but I agreed with her. They were... Huge.

How could I forget to complain about them again?! Oy- the birds were ENORMOUS! The Sparra looked remarkable similar to balls of bread dough and what's-his-bucket from RW was HUGE. Capt. Snow, that's it. He was unbelievably enormous, same goes for the Squire while we're on this size kick. I've said it before, and I'll say it again- I don't like overly-large birds. (Or lizards, but esp. birds) It's just not right.

VanessaNB
December 28th, 2002, 06:24 PM
In the book they were supposed to be big. Sparrows were probably around the size of mice, Captain Snow and Gingivere were supposed to be big. Matthias was small enough to fit in Gingivere's mouth.

Jade the Warrior
January 2nd, 2003, 02:22 PM
Well, from the Terrouge discussion (where I was Warriormouse) to here, this is sweet...Although I'll have to start writing down which passwords belong to which names...

Anyways, back to the main discussion, I agree with VanessaNB, Captian Snow and Squire Julian Gingivere were suppose to be huge, the same reason Asmodeus was so big. They all eat (or are suppose to eat by the laws of nature) mice!

Back to the actual main subject, the problem at Terrouge was most of them wouldn't listen to Martin. When I tried to put in my two cents and help him, it didn't work...I like the show and enjoy watching it, depise all the things that are changed. I'm not against the headfur, the changes from the book to the show (Although I didn't like the fact that in the show, Martin vowed never to fight with his father's sword again, because that messes up the plot to Mossflower, and in turn, Legend of Luke. I sense that a continuity error must take place to write this wrong if Mossflower is ever made into the anime.). In fact, at times I became more emotional watching the show than I did reading the books...Like when Rose dies, or when Matthias almost drowns in the Abbey pond.

I also liked the odd episodes, Cluny's Clowns and The Visitor. They added a little more to the show and even the Warbeak problem in A Favour Returned. So, I have no idea why some people have a hard time with the show...

~Jade, who can finally post under her true name, not Warriormouse or spectacular suicune, but Jade...

Martin the Warrior
January 2nd, 2003, 11:11 PM
First, welcome to the Forum, Jade!


Although I didn't like the fact that in the show, Martin vowed never to fight with his father's sword again, because that messes up the plot to Mossflower, and in turn, Legend of Luke.

I was a little disturbed by that at first, myself. However, upon further examination, it doesn't really create any continuity problems at all.

What Martin swore never to do in the series was to kill with the blade, which is not the same thing as using it. One can use a sword to cut ropes, hack wood, or a variety of other menial tasks. Surely Rose's death would not have prevented Martin from ever doing these things should the situation arise. Likewise, a sword can be used to slash, cut, stab, and otherwise injure a foe without ultimately killing them. What's a worse fate? The silence of death or the agony of being completely crippled (I'm thinking of Ungatt Trunn as I write this)?

So, with the distinction of what Martin actually swore out of the way, we turn our attention to the greater issue: continuity.

In Mossflower, Martin is barely introduced before Tsarmina snaps his sword in two, leaving him with only the handle. Even were the desire there, he couldn't kill with the sword. It remains in this state for the bulk of the story, making the vow irrelevant. Then, it's reforged. And, while Martin does fight with Boar, that can be shown in an animated format without showing Martin slaying the vermin. The only major fight Martin is in for the rest of the book is against Tsarmina-- and, as we all know, she killed herself. In the end, we see that Martin's vow didn't and wouldn't affect the story of Mossflower at all. As such, it shouldn't be an issue.

In The Legend of Luke, Martin himself never encounters a major villain (that's reserved for Luke and Vilu), and all I can recall are a handful of vermin bands. Even so, I can't recall Martin actually killing anyone in the book, so we're left with the vow once more being a non-issue.

In my eyes, at least. ;) Which is why I think it's an unfair criticism of the show.

Lord Sarkin
January 3rd, 2003, 01:41 AM
............Bahumbug!I cant conplain anymore,not that I want to but the only reason I am saying this is from Experience even though the books and Martins corner are better.Oh and about Martins corner,I will keep you waiting,but not that anyone wants to know.As for rioting,dont do it you can not win!!!THats Lord Sarkin to you reds.THey do have tails of many colors as I observe them,but if the animation was better it woulb be fine because they dont stick out to much.But I dont watch the show now so I am of the subject for good!Goodbye.

Jade the Warrior
January 3rd, 2003, 02:15 PM
Yes, very good points, Martin. I was disturbed only because he said, and I quote, "Upon my father's sword, I vow never to fight with it again..." and then throws it to the ground and we never see it again. But, you have made several good points about this. So, I'm not worried anymore and it certianly doesn't diminish my love for the show.

~Jade, who likes that Martin reminded her of other uses for a sword besides battle...

VanessaNB
January 3rd, 2003, 05:10 PM
I can see it now...a mouse hacking at a tree with a sword.
*runs off to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with a sword*

The Red Badger
January 5th, 2003, 03:45 PM
THats Lord Sarkin to you reds.

Hmmmm. . . people who tell me to call them "Lord" have a tendency to be called "Mud", instead. :rolleyes:


"Upon my father's sword, I vow never to fight with it again..."

Y'know what's weird? That's not what was in the script (which S. Roberts quoted to Martin).

I prefer to look at the situation realistically. Say they adapt Mossflower. . . does anyone HONESTLY think they'd change the story to the point where Martin never fights? Or abandons the sword? Or anything like that? Do you honestly think they'd have Martin giving Tsarmina and the rest daisies saying, "Make peace, not war!" A good dose of reality is needed: They'd forget all about that silly vow and just go on telling the story, the same way they did after the "John Churchmouse is Cornflower's father" mess at the end of Redwall. Not worth getting worked up over, says I :cool:

Jade the Warrior
January 5th, 2003, 04:00 PM
I forgot about the mix-up with Cornflower's father and John Churchmouse...If they can fix that, they can fix the vow to Mossflower thingy, too. No worries, anymore. Thanks.

~Jade, who is quite releived and got quite a kick trying to picture Martin handing out Daises to Tsarmina and her horde...

VanessaNB
January 5th, 2003, 04:52 PM
"To the Redwall mice, the marriage between Mattimeo and Tess was perfectly normal, though others could only look on in horror."
Most kids wouldn't even remember those bloopers, given the average attention span. I watched the show before I read any of the books, but when I read the ending of Mattimeo and remembered the TV show, I kinda jumped. Continuity Error!
*runs off to give out daisies*
And Sarkin...what's up with this stuff on rioting and the tails of many colors?

Constance2
November 12th, 2005, 03:34 PM
I think that the voices are bad. I mean, the abbots are okay, but Cornflower and Matthias sound better in the recorded books.

Lonna Bowstripe
November 12th, 2005, 05:04 PM
Please don't bring up old threads.

Barkstripe
November 12th, 2005, 05:06 PM
*the voice of martin the warrior (if that's ok Martin)*

Please don't bring back topics unless they are under 6 months (i think that's the right number) old. Thnx. It get's kinda annoying.

Goddess of Darkness
November 13th, 2005, 01:24 AM
Sorry, but I don't think good ol' Martin would say "thnx". Heh...ciao. ^^

matthias_fan
December 12th, 2005, 03:22 PM
Sorry, but I don't think good ol' Martin would say "thnx". Very true and have you heard the one about
"All of the animal's sizes are way wrong."
:mad: :confused: :mad: That makes me so mad every time I hear it. :hon:

Barkstripe
December 13th, 2005, 09:20 AM
Sorry, but I don't think good ol' Martin would say "thnx". Heh...ciao. ^^
HEHE. I only said voice of martin not martin.

Josiah the Warrior
December 14th, 2005, 05:39 PM
You know, I have to ask all you people who drag up old threads; where do you find them? Exactly how far back into the files are you reaching? Shouldn't there be some sort of indicator that you're reviving a dead thread if it takes five minutes to find it? Sorry if I come off as rude, I'm just annoyed by all the revivals....

LordTBT
December 14th, 2005, 07:28 PM
You know, I have to ask all you people who drag up old threads; where do you find them? Exactly how far back into the files are you reaching? Shouldn't there be some sort of indicator that you're reviving a dead thread if it takes five minutes to find it? Sorry if I come off as rude, I'm just annoyed by all the revivals....

I'm annoyed that people don't read the stickies, the FAQs, or other posts in the thread saying not to revive dead threads.

RockJaw_Grang
December 15th, 2005, 09:04 AM
I'm Annoyed when people keep on posting in them saying that they are annoyed when people bring them back up...

Josiah the Warrior
December 15th, 2005, 01:58 PM
I'm Annoyed when people keep on posting in them saying that they are annoyed when people bring them back up...
Too bad.;) It'll continue until they stop.

RockJaw_Grang
December 15th, 2005, 02:11 PM
Hyprocrite.;)


As you said even if you did spell it wrong ;).

Josiah the Warrior
December 15th, 2005, 02:49 PM
I edited my post shortly thereafter not only because I misspelled hypocrite, but because I realized that was not the case. See the edited version.

RockJaw_Grang
December 15th, 2005, 03:10 PM
I know I just had to get after you ;) .

Chelki Sureshot
December 19th, 2005, 03:10 PM
On the Patroller-Generaly Discussion it's annoying if people bring up ancient threads, but on RWTV I really don't think it matters, becauser there's only like 5 threads here. Anyway back on topic. . .

Pallum's a girl! What? There is NO excuse for that. How annoying. I got past the size difference a long time ago, because it's easier to concentrate on just watching it them ranting about the sizes the whole time. Roses ponytail is wierd, and even though mice do have headfur, I doubt it will be that long.

This is my 500th post! Hooray! (I know, I know, it's not about how many you post but the quality of the posts.)