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View Full Version : How long before Redwall do you think Martin lived?



Jodan
July 15th, 2004, 08:58 AM
I am guessing at least 100 seasons. Do we know for sure? I don't remember that being mentioned. What do you guys think?

Chelki Sureshot
July 15th, 2004, 10:22 AM
Welcome, Jodan, to the Long Patrol Club! :D To answer your question, age is never really mentioned. For the young ones, they'll say that they're a few seasons old, or for the really old ones, (Cregga,) they just say they're very old. What is a season? A year? BJ has never really told us, and I think that's fine.

Firerunner
July 15th, 2004, 10:23 AM
I thought a season was like summer,fall,spring,or winter.I wish he would tell us.

Jodan
July 15th, 2004, 04:52 PM
You can tell because they always talk about Namedays, when the Abbess or Abbot name the season, and there are various winters and autumns that have special names.

Cinnabarr Rivershell
July 15th, 2004, 05:46 PM
I think that one season is equivelent to one year in Redwall terms. So what a full year is to us, is actually four years to a creature in Redwall. I could very possibly be wrong.

As for Martin, I'd have to say that he was.....ah.... thats a toughy....hmmm...I'll get back to you on that. :D

Firerunner
July 15th, 2004, 06:03 PM
But how could a whole year be winter. :confused:

Jodan
July 15th, 2004, 06:20 PM
and seasons are to the woodlanders as years are to us. It is logical to measure time in seasons, since the animals wouldn't live for longer than ten years. It is kind of like dog years, how one year to us is 6 to a dog.

Cinnabarr Rivershell
July 15th, 2004, 07:02 PM
Joden, you said that you think that Martin is at least 100 seasons old. That might be old for an animal, but for us humans, 100 seasons is only 25 years. And since BJ gives his characters humanistic (I hope that is a word) characteristics, like walking on two legs, talking, and all that stuff, then one is to assume that he would give them the same regular lifespan as a regular human. By doing this BJ makes his characters feel more real and more similar to the reader so the reader may connect with the characters better. So I think the use of the word "seasons" is used to make it seem more original and woodlanderish. I think that the animals age regulary, just like humans. Thats my take on the idea. Oh, as for Martins age, I'd have to say that he was in between 280-340 seasons old, which is between 70-85 years old in real years.

Jodan
July 15th, 2004, 07:18 PM
I estimated at least 100 seasons before the events of Redwall As for how long the animals live, I wouldn't say more than 40 seasons at the extreme most.

As for the animals, I think they are meant to act like humans, but still be animals. That is why they measure time in seasons.

Cinnabarr Rivershell
July 15th, 2004, 11:51 PM
Here is a list of BJ's books in order of history:
# Lord Brocktree
# Martin The Warrior
# Mossflower
# The Legend of Luke
# Outcast of Redwall
# Mariel of Redwall
# The Bellmaker
# Salamandastron
# Redwall
# Mattimeo
# The Pearls of Lutra
# The Long Patrol
# Marlfox
# Taggerung
# Triss
# Loamhedge

So, Joden, you are saying that a regular beast lives to a max of 40 seasons. If you look at the historical time gap between The Legend of Luke and Redwall you will see that your estimation is off. Plus, I dissagree that characters in Redwall only live to about 40 seasons. That's ludacris. Simply ludacris. Martin, had already gone through his young days as a teenager in Martin the Warrior, then as an adult in Mossflower, and still as an adult in The Legend of Luke. This doesn't give much away about The Legend of Luke, so don't worry about it, but I'll put it in a spoiler tag anyways. At the very beginning of The Legend of Luke Redwall Abbey is still being built after seasons and seasons of getting the area cleared and hauling all of the sandstone out of the quary. And Martin, even after all these seasons of building the abbey, is still very much young and is still a warrior. So You can see that if he were to live only 40 seasons then he would be middle-aged by The Legend of Luke book. So I still stick by my 280-340 season age, which again is equivelent to 70-80 years of age.

Jodan
July 16th, 2004, 09:06 AM
and stick to my original estimate. I could be wrong, but in the absence of actual numbers, I wouldn't say they would live as long as a human. If they did, why would the measure time in Seasons, instead of years?

Cinnabarr Rivershell
July 17th, 2004, 01:27 AM
In one book, I remember the travelers being gone for two seasons, then they came back to Redwall. So you are saying that they were not gone for two seasons, but for two years for the animals time. Thats a long time to be gone. Plus in Redwall there are no humans, so why can't the animals live as long as humans? Why would BJ want to have his characters have a lot of the same feelings, attitudes, thouhgts, desires that humans have? Why would he make the animals in Redwall, be so close to us, the human readers? I'll tell you why. Because as an author, BJ wants us to connect with his characters. By making them die in what is equivelent to 10 years of our time, makes the characters seem much farther apart to us, and thus the reader connection is lost. So you see, by making them have the same lifespan, BJ makes the characters seem more realistic. That is my logic.

Jodan
July 17th, 2004, 02:40 PM
more than a human's. Thats why I think the animals have a limited lifespan, and view time as passing in seasons, since they are relevant to animals needing to be able to flourish in spring and store up food for winter

Cheesethief
July 18th, 2004, 06:45 AM
right. bj has warped time to fit him. in real life a badger lives many years but a mouse only two or threee. tagg was four years old, in his prime. otters live to about 13. therefore otters are one of the oldest creatures, with badgers, but are never described so. the redwall books arent harsh so mice live about a third to half as long as badgers, because otherwise a badger would watch generations of mice die. so time in redwall is unrealistic. how do the animals measure time? time is not a big thing, it is simply a guideline and not a rule for the animals to follow. if bj had real time redwall would be new when the book redwall was happening. then there is size, and whether animals stand on their hind legs or not, and clothes, and many debates that follow. so i say, lets leave it. thanks.

Jodan
July 18th, 2004, 01:34 PM
Brian Jacques, in an interview said that the animals are as big as your imagination. Here is the size comparison guide (for full grown members of species) that I have put together, and it is based on what I have been able to gather from the books, but is not based on anything concrete and is assuming all members of the species are roughly the same size. It goes from smallest to biggest, and I used mice as the constant.

Shrews (3/4 size of mice)

Mice, Rats, Stoats

Squirrels, Moles, Hedgehog, Weasels, Ferrets (5/4 size of mice)

Otters, Hares Foxes(4/3 size of mice)

Badgers, Wildcats (twice the size of mice)

Cheesethief
July 19th, 2004, 01:29 PM
not incredibly accurate. some species of shrew are much larger than mice. rats are bigger than mice and stoats even bigger. otters, hares, foxes, badgers and wilcats are huge. but thats in real life.

Rillflag27
July 19th, 2004, 01:42 PM
For a minute there I thought you guys were talking about the LP Martin. ;)

As for Martin's age, You know for sure when he was born cause it tells you in legend of luke. Also, in Mossflower I think he mentions when he left the north coasts and how long he stayed there. So if anyone wants to do some research and check I'm sure you could get an approximation of how old he is.

Jodan
July 19th, 2004, 02:02 PM
not incredibly accurate.

I know, like I said it was based on my observations and some assumptions.

Cheesethief
July 20th, 2004, 05:51 AM
So You can see that if he were to live only 40 seasons then he would be middle-aged by The Legend of Luke book. So I still stick by my 280-340 season age, which again is equivelent to 70-80 years of age.
ok, i hope youre talking about the warped time in the books, cos in real life mice live, like three years.


I know, like I said it was based on my observations and some assumptions. yeh. so it is probably about right if were talking about redwall size. :)

Cinnabarr Rivershell
July 20th, 2004, 11:29 PM
ok, i hope youre talking about the warped time in the books, cos in real life mice live, like three years.
Yeah, I was talking in Redwall time, not real time.