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Lonna Bowstripe
September 4th, 2004, 06:37 PM
If Redwallers are horrified that Gulo eats living creatures, than why do they eat fish?

Glenner
September 4th, 2004, 07:03 PM
Its the same reason why vegetarians will still eat fish. I think theres some sort of mentality that since fish are less intelligent and sensitive, then you feel less guilty about eating them. .

Anyway, I'm about five or six chapters into the story. I just finished the part where Arflow witnessed the massacre of the hares (I believe they were eaten too) I think this new characteristic of the villians is rather interesting and quite shocking really. Probably the most brutal characterisitc BJ has bestowed on any of his villians thus far.

Lonna Bowstripe
September 4th, 2004, 07:08 PM
Yup, they were eaten. I don't understand why Arflow doesn't show up in the story again, though.

LordTBT
September 4th, 2004, 07:26 PM
edit: nevermind

Glenner
September 4th, 2004, 08:18 PM
Why do I always get attached to random otter characters that never show up again?

Barrag Barr
September 5th, 2004, 05:13 AM
You think thats bad,all my favirote characters Die!! :eek: :(

Barrag Barr
September 5th, 2004, 06:35 AM
Have you noticed,most vermin have sort of king-ship riturals,like in triss,Kurda needed that crown,and Gabool needed fort Bladegrit. :slagar

Ferahgo the Assassin
September 5th, 2004, 01:44 PM
I was so disappointed when Shard died. He was easily one of the coolest vermin in the series.

Lacoasta
September 16th, 2004, 05:05 PM
Shard rocked. He was possibly one of teh most origional characters made in the past few books. I also liked Burlop. He was cool.

LadyBeelze
September 17th, 2004, 08:57 PM
Woodlanders don't eat red meat, it's as simple as that. But i liked the flesh-eating vermin of this book..tottally awsome :cool:

Senav
September 18th, 2004, 08:39 PM
Technically, cannibalism is eating one's own species. So...they bad guys were still cannibals. They did eat each other, right?

I should note I enjoy meat of all kinds. I am teh cannibal!!!11!

Cheesethief
September 24th, 2004, 06:19 AM
i thought it made a change to have some decent cannibal vermin. before rakkety tam, most bad guys ate birds, which redwallers didnt, but having proper literal "dog-eat-dog" bad guys was good.

Aleisou Swiftpounce
October 13th, 2004, 01:40 PM
I agree. Proper cannibals are cool - and more evil.

Firerunner
October 16th, 2004, 11:05 AM
That was brutal of them to eat the hares and the others.I think I am on Chapter 10 or 11.Thus far it is awesome.I am listening to it on my cd while reading along.The cd portrays Dogey's(sp) accent very well.

Cheesethief
October 16th, 2004, 11:31 AM
yeah, i wonder what the cds are like. is that the unabridged, right? i wouldnt get abridged, simply because you miss some of the redwall charm. but unabridged...well

Ringothewarrior
October 17th, 2004, 08:30 AM
I think Gulo eats raw meat while the redwallers eat unraw meat.

Aleisou Swiftpounce
October 17th, 2004, 02:07 PM
No, Gulo cooks his meat (although I also think it's raw sometimes.) The Redwallers only eat fish.

The reason is that the only fish in the whole series that have been humanized are eels. Most of the fish to the Redwallers are just the same as we know them.

The other creatures that Gulo eats however are actual "people" - like the squirrels and the hares that they killed. Wouldn't you be a bit shocked at cannibalism, even if you weren't a vegitarian?

I think that's the answer as good as it gets...

Ringothewarrior
October 18th, 2004, 11:38 AM
oh and it also says that his soldies eat meat, not just Gulo.

Candied Chesnut
October 22nd, 2004, 12:38 AM
i actually found that quite intresting cuz the foxes and ermine before RT didnt eat the flesh of other creatures other than birds and fish. and wouldnt all that blood stain their white fur?

Ringothewarrior
October 22nd, 2004, 08:00 PM
i actually found that quite intresting cuz the foxes and ermine before RT didnt eat the flesh of other creatures other than birds and fish. and wouldnt all that blood stain their white fur?

Well Aleisou SwiftPouncesaid they cooked their meat. I don't think Gulo does though.

Bladeswift
October 22nd, 2004, 10:57 PM
I hear a lot of people using the word cannibalism. Cannibalism is eating one's own kind. A wolverine eating a hare isn't cannibalism. From Gulo's perspective it's no different then the Redwallers eating fish.

Candied Chesnut
October 23rd, 2004, 12:55 AM
Well Aleisou SwiftPouncesaid they cooked their meat. I don't think Gulo does though.
well his soldiers did, but Gulo just kinda half cooked it and ate it half raw half cooked. and he doesnt bother taking the feathers off his birds, so he eats those too.

Ringothewarrior
October 25th, 2004, 04:25 PM
Yea, I'd hate to be in Gulo's army...he makes you eat them. Gross!!! Kill them Long partol!

Cheesethief
October 29th, 2004, 03:32 PM
Yea, I'd hate to be in Gulo's army...he makes you eat them. Gross!!! Kill them Long partol! its "patrol". :rolleyes: and actually, i think most of them, nay, all, choose to eat the flesh of foes.


I hear a lot of people using the word cannibalism. Cannibalism is eating one's own kind. A wolverine eating a hare isn't cannibalism. From Gulo's perspective it's no different then the Redwallers eating fish. yes, that could be argued, but in redwall the different species coexist more like humans, who have different skills, than animals with dif. skills. so socially it would be cannibalism, but in terms of nature, indeed it would be not.

Aleisou Swiftpounce
October 30th, 2004, 04:09 PM
i actually found that quite intresting cuz the foxes and ermine before RT didnt eat the flesh of other creatures other than birds and fish. and wouldnt all that blood stain their white fur?

Err... it's traditions from different parts of the world isn't it? And who said that the blood didn't stain their fur? It probably did, but I guess it washes out after a while.

Candied Chesnut
November 2nd, 2004, 01:05 AM
well the white ermine in triss had to be pretty close to "the lands of ice and such and such" but i suppose youre right

Tagg's Tattoos
November 2nd, 2004, 07:45 AM
Ermine- a mustelid, ie a member of the weasel family; a carnivore.

click here (http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/mammals/weasel/Ermineprintout.shtml) for more.

BTW, even carnivores wash after dining...

Senav
November 18th, 2004, 05:10 PM
There were white ferrets in Triss, not ermine. Two different animals.
And the blood would come out of their fur, because no matter where they live, ermine shed their white hairs in the spring and turn brown (stoat). Plus, going around smelling like blood is a no-no unless you're a large carnivore. Weasels and stoats/ermine are small enough to be lunch for another animal, so they'd have to keep relatively clean.

*is in geek mode*

Ringmaster
December 4th, 2004, 08:57 PM
The part about not eating the heads reminded me about the part in the Return of the King (the movie) when the orcs "released the prisoners" and catapulted the heads

Barkstripe
February 15th, 2005, 02:11 PM
I think it says so in mattimeo

part of the fish prayer says silver fish who's life we take only for a meals sake

gulo eats meat whenever he wants to. In gulo's hord rats eat rats. and so on.

none of the redwallers are fish. so they aren't eating their own types. that is why there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.

Bladeswift
February 15th, 2005, 04:00 PM
I think it says so in mattimeo

part of the fish prayer says silver fish who's life we take only for a meals sake

gulo eats meat whenever he wants to. In gulo's hord rats eat rats. and so on.

none of the redwallers are fish. so they aren't eating their own types. that is why there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.
None of Gulo's horde are hares, squirrels, or mice.

Barkstripe
February 19th, 2005, 05:28 PM
I didn't mean that

Barkstripe
February 21st, 2005, 12:48 PM
THere scared because rats eat rats there

Marlfoxes
February 26th, 2005, 10:49 PM
What significance did Arflow have in the book anyway? :confused:

Cheesethief
February 27th, 2005, 01:09 PM
None. He was just there to bear witness to the "event".

Ferahgo the Assassin
February 28th, 2005, 05:32 PM
I was expecting Arflow to show up again throughout the entire book. He disappeared so abruptly that it almost seemed to be a mistake on BJ's part (although it probably wasn't, yeah). It was almost as if he had meant for the otter to come into the story again and simply forgot.

BJ, the day the book was set for publication: "Oh yeah... Arflow."

Marlfoxes
February 28th, 2005, 05:36 PM
O.K. thanks I was just wondering as to what happened to him. :)

rossthestrange
April 11th, 2005, 06:34 AM
Fish are not meat!










:lol: :lol: :hon: :hon: :cornflow: :redsy :confused: :) :) :) ;)

Aleisou Swiftpounce
April 12th, 2005, 04:12 PM
They are in a sense. It's the flesh of a dead animal - so it's meat. You can't say it's not meat at all.

Besides, it's alright to eat fish in Redwall because the fish are not sentient. (Is that right? Conscious, y'know... I confused by that word! :o)
Well, eels are but nobody in Redwall has eaten an eel. Ick.

Lonna Bowstripe
April 12th, 2005, 10:58 PM
Say, what about that old eagle in Mossflower who wanted to taste pine martin? Was he a cannible?

Badrang3
April 12th, 2005, 11:13 PM
I don't think so. Captain Snow ate shrews, and he's not considered a cannibal. Infact, the birds many time bring up the subject of eating other creatures, like Rocangus in Salamandastron.

Cheesethief
April 13th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Cannibalism is the consumption of the flesh of one's own species, and I think that Brian sticks to that. Although...Gulo's horde were described as cannibals, right? I guess it's different with birds.

Candied Chesnut
April 21st, 2005, 10:44 PM
cheese is right. no one thinks of a shark eating a fish as cannibalism. gulos hoard, in a sense, werent really cannibals. i dont recall them eating each other. they were simply freaky ermines and foxes (and a wolverine) who ate the flesh of their defeated opponents.

Storm Swiftblade
April 25th, 2005, 11:02 PM
I think it was pretty cool that there were some different cannibal vermin. I mean usually it's either "I'm going to take over Redwall" or "I'm going to take the sword", but I liked the creepy cannibal twist. THe books needed a little something different.

Lady Blaireao
July 10th, 2005, 01:36 PM
For once in my life, I am made speechless by a question. I'll have to do some research on this.

Now your grip's too strong,
You can't catch love with a net or a gun, gotta keep faith that your path will change, gotta keep faith that your luck will change.
- James, Tomorrow.
bye!
- Lady Blair

Alliriyan
July 19th, 2005, 11:17 AM
Maybe cannibalism refers to mammals eating mammals, birds eating birds. Though possibly it's more to do with predator and prey.

If a predator eats a predator it's cannibalism (Gulo eating a weasel, for example), but for a fox to eat a mouse might be less so because it's the natural prey. But because the mice are as (or more!) sentient as the foxes etc in Redwall it maybe doesn't count. So eating a mouse IS cannibalism.

Though I'm fairly sure that inter-whateveritis (bird, mammal, fish, amphib, rept) is ok, because the birds eat anything they're big enough to fit down their throats (I am the laaaaw!) and the vermin are nearly always eating birds in all the books.

I'm not good at explaining stuff, so you might want to read that s l o w l y...;) You never know, it could even be to do with level of intelligence! If it squawks eat it, if it begs for mercy don't?