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Ember Nickel
November 11th, 2005, 02:49 PM
Out of the first seventeen books, which deaths were the biggest surprise, or smallest? For me, the one I could see coming best was (Triss)Drufo. If we're counting High Rhulain, then it's entirely different, but I won't spoilerize.

Badrang3
November 11th, 2005, 03:02 PM
I think Mother Mellus. Never saw that coming.

RockJaw_Grang
November 11th, 2005, 03:03 PM
Probably In Triss Shogg I didn't see him dieing..

Josiah the Warrior
November 11th, 2005, 03:20 PM
I think the most shocking death was
Finnbarr Galedeep

Barkstripe
November 11th, 2005, 04:54 PM
I think the most shocking death was
Finnbarr Galedeep
I could see him dieing.

Mine was probobly mother mellus

Folgrimeo
November 11th, 2005, 05:13 PM
I'd say the biggest surprise was
Russa, in The Long Patrol. She was so cool. Along with her death was the death of the book being interesting for me, but that's another matter.
with second and third place being
Rose in Martin the Warrior (at first I thought Martin died), and Methuselah in Redwall, respectively

Smallest surprise was, um, any of the villains in the series. :P No, actually, I'd say the smallest surprise (don't throw a mace at me for this) was the death of
Finnbarr Galedeep in The Bellmaker. I can't explain it myself, but at that very moment in time the death seemed predictable. I don't like major battles at the end because I think all the important characters get caught up in the action and blend in with the hundreds of other beasts. I don't feel that they're ever in danger, if anything being in a huge battle means the vermin are busy focusing on characters too insignificant to have names. Now, if the good characters started getting struck with arrows, then my impression would change. As it is, if there's a badger that's going to make the whole battle before it absolutely worthless (since almost nothing can defeat a badger), then I don't care. The other good characters are safe because of that badger. So then I just wait for the inevitable outcome. The good characters seem to lose personality during huge battles. Perhaps it's just my loathing for Salamandastron hares in battle, with this bias making me think less of any character that dares get involved. The point of all this is that the end battle of The Bellmaker seemed anti-climatic (mostly since Nagru and Silvamord joined forces, ending what made them interesting in the first place), so for anything to make the ending even more pathetic was to be expected. For some reason, the death of a good character came to mind. In ANY other situation, this explanation would not work. There was just something very specific about the moment that made it not a surprise (yet I must be one of the few that did not see the death in High Rhulain from five miles away). I liked Finnbarr, but I didn't like him at the end, so he could die for all I cared. He already served his purpose in the book well, I didn't think he could do any better in the end, so let him vanish however he wants.

Actually, the smallest surprise for me should go to
Cregga, or whoever the blind badger was, from Taggerung
But I cared for that character in those final moments. Not so much with the previous spoiler. The spoiler where I mentioned no throwing maces.

Josiah the Warrior
November 11th, 2005, 05:46 PM
Wait, I change my vote! How could I forget....Rose!

Ferahgo the Assassin
November 11th, 2005, 06:06 PM
Actually, I thought that
Rose's death was at least somewhat predictable. After all, she was nowhere to be seen in Mossflower, and it stands to reason that Martin would've stayed in Noonvale had she lived. I wouldn't say that I knew she was going to die, but it was definitely not surprising.

And for those deaths that actually were surprising, I'd say that any main or nearly-main character that has died in battle with the main baddy was pretty unexpected. It's only happened a few times that I can think of, including
Urthstripe versus Ferahgo in Salamandastron and, as everyone has been fond of mentioning, Finnbarr versus Nagru in The Bellmaker. As for Urthstripe, I could really see Mara returning to the mountain after growing up a little bit and becoming a good adopted daughter to Urthstripe.

As I think I've said before, in High Rhulain
Cuthbert's death was quite predictable. In fact, after Riggu was killed I was almost confused at the fact that the hare was still alive. Then I remembered Pitru... and life made sense again.

And this is the spoiler thread of DOOM.

Cornflower
November 11th, 2005, 07:41 PM
I remember being quite surprised when I found out about

Rose dying in "Martin the Warrior". It was more shocking to me because I hadn't read "Mossflower" yet and so wasn't aware of her absence in that book.

I was also surprised by

Torleep's death in "Lord Brocktree". Sure, he wasn't a very memorable hare, but I had grown to like him.

Barkstripe
November 11th, 2005, 07:43 PM
I'd say the biggest surprise was
Russa, in The Long Patrol. She was so cool. Along with her death was the death of the book being interesting for me, but that's another matter.
with second and third place being
Rose in Martin the Warrior (at first I thought Martin died), and Methuselah in Redwall, respectively

Smallest surprise was, um, any of the villains in the series. :P No, actually, I'd say the smallest surprise (don't throw a mace at me for this) was the death of
Finnbarr Galedeep in The Bellmaker. I can't explain it myself, but at that very moment in time the death seemed predictable. I don't like major battles at the end because I think all the important characters get caught up in the action and blend in with the hundreds of other beasts. I don't feel that they're ever in danger, if anything being in a huge battle means the vermin are busy focusing on characters too insignificant to have names. Now, if the good characters started getting struck with arrows, then my impression would change. As it is, if there's a badger that's going to make the whole battle before it absolutely worthless (since almost nothing can defeat a badger), then I don't care. The other good characters are safe because of that badger. So then I just wait for the inevitable outcome. The good characters seem to lose personality during huge battles. Perhaps it's just my loathing for Salamandastron hares in battle, with this bias making me think less of any character that dares get involved. The point of all this is that the end battle of The Bellmaker seemed anti-climatic (mostly since Nagru and Silvamord joined forces, ending what made them interesting in the first place), so for anything to make the ending even more pathetic was to be expected. For some reason, the death of a good character came to mind. In ANY other situation, this explanation would not work. There was just something very specific about the moment that made it not a surprise (yet I must be one of the few that did not see the death in High Rhulain from five miles away). I liked Finnbarr, but I didn't like him at the end, so he could die for all I cared. He already served his purpose in the book well, I didn't think he could do any better in the end, so let him vanish however he wants.

Actually, the smallest surprise for me should go to
Cregga, or whoever the blind badger was, from Taggerung
But I cared for that character in those final moments. Not so much with the previous spoiler. The spoiler where I mentioned no throwing maces.

I completely agree with the finbar thing. i knew like when he first came in that he would die.

RockJaw_Grang
November 11th, 2005, 08:07 PM
I could kind of see Finnabarrs death

And Roses since I read Mossflower first and it didn't have any thing to do with rose..

Lonna Bowstripe
November 11th, 2005, 09:35 PM
Least surprising was that one guy in Rhulain. I'm too lazy to use the spoiler tags.

Most surprising was Mellus and Cregga. Never saw them coming.

The_Outcast_of_Redwall
November 12th, 2005, 07:59 AM
I read Martin the Warrior before I read Mossflower, so I didn't see Rose's death coming.

Constance2
November 12th, 2005, 10:07 AM
Erm, how do you put up spoiler tags?

Barkstripe
November 12th, 2005, 10:25 AM
It's the little butten that looks like (click the link coming up ) spoiler tag (http://forums.longpatrolclub.com/images/custom/spoiler.gif)

Lonna Bowstripe
November 12th, 2005, 12:28 PM
It's actually easier, once you get comfortable with the fourms, to just type in the tags, like this. [spoiler]hello[/spolier] Of course, though, spell the tags correctly.

Barkstripe
November 12th, 2005, 01:07 PM
Or another way is to type out the spoiler highlight it and tahn press the spoiler butten. It's alot easier.

Constance2
November 12th, 2005, 03:18 PM
Okay.

I think that a surprising one was (long Patrol

Furgale. He was a really good hare, and liked him.

Also, I think that another suprising one was
(salamandastron)
Bremmun

Ms.Chibimoon-daae
November 13th, 2005, 10:02 AM
Well for me, Rose's death wasn't very surprising, but I won't say I saw it comin'. Then in the tv show, I found out that Martin and Rose were in love. THAT surprised me, and suddenly, her death was sad. I mean, I wasn't bawling, but I did shed a tear or two.

Swordmaster
November 14th, 2005, 01:19 PM
Sagitar Sawfang. She had arguably the coolest name in Redwall history. Still, she was a baddie. But she seemed like a survivor baddie. Oh well, can't have it the good way all the time...

Ember Nickel
November 15th, 2005, 06:39 AM
The death that suprised me most was Cregga Rose eye's death. Maybe it wasn't her death itself that suprised me, but when it happened. It seems it would have happemedin the Long Patrol and not in .....that other book, I forgot which one.Taggerung.

Felldoh
November 15th, 2005, 04:33 PM
I think that I'll have to say that mother Mellus' death was the most suprising for me... I didn't really see it coming at all. Though I did see Rose's death coming from a mile away. Her not being in Mossflower made it painfully obvious, to me at least. Felldoh's death was quite predictable too... he just seemed like someone who'd die fighting... I couldn't see him living a life outside of fighting.

Bladeswift
November 15th, 2005, 04:59 PM
Technically I could see any character dying since they're all mortal, and are generally surrounded by conflicts to boot. While no death really took me by surprise per se, I'd say (Bellmaker spoiler)Mother Mellus was on my "Not as likely to die as some other characters" list.

Ember Nickel
November 16th, 2005, 02:57 PM
*looks at title of this thread*:eek:


Technically I could see any character dying since they're all mortal, and are generally surrounded by conflicts to boot.Since the/a protagonist has survived every Redwall novel so far (the definition of protagonist is debatable for some books), I go into all of them with the expectation that the protagonist will survive.
(Martin the Warrior)
Rose's was more of a shocker to me. I didn't consider her absence in Mossflower, as I was too absorbed in the novel to actually turn my brain on! So it came unexpectedly, as she had been, in my opinion, more of a main character than the usual diers. I was saddened, perhaps overly so (it's only a book...).

Ferahgo the Assassin
November 16th, 2005, 08:04 PM
How about characters that you thought would die, but didn't? In Loamhedge, I was really suprised that Flinky's band got away at the end without pushing up daisies. Usually even comic-relief type vermin meet a grisly end. I was especially surprised that Redd survived, seeing as he was incredibly annoying, and most annoying vermin get killed by crazy badgers or something.

Hisk
November 16th, 2005, 08:08 PM
I actually considered that terrible vole in Rakkety Tam "vermin"...too bad he never died. There were a couple other surprises, but the names escape me unfortunatly.

RockJaw_Grang
November 16th, 2005, 08:12 PM
Are you thinking Yoofus?

Ember Nickel
November 16th, 2005, 08:19 PM
Leatho Shellhound. (The only reason I added his surname was to lengthen this message to 10 characters, but now that this parenthetical comment is around that's rather worthless.)

Hisk
November 16th, 2005, 08:23 PM
Exactly what I was thinking- just couldn't put the name. I thought he had it coming until the Leatho and Tiria sitting in a tree stuff suddenly popped into my head.

chupacabra
November 21st, 2005, 04:07 PM
good. I often hate it when the vermin only die?

RockJaw_Grang
November 23rd, 2005, 10:00 AM
Well as it seems that The other thread surprising deaths has been closed/deleted this is A new one so post what you thought the most surprising deaths in all the redwall books was the most surprising.

Note: Please use spoilers and Put what book it came from so people that haven't read that book wont look at your spoiler not sure if it was from A book they already read.

My most surprising death would have to be The bellmaker

Mother Mellus I did not see her dieing

Ferahgo the Assassin
November 23rd, 2005, 10:54 AM
It's a shame that the other thread got completely deleted when only the offending posts could've been removed. There were plenty of good ideas and good conversation, and I doubt that many people will feel like completely rehashing their opinions.

I don't either, but... I found the deaths of Mellus, Finnbarr Galedeep, and Urthstripe to be quite unexpected, and the deaths of Rose and Cuthburt to be at least mildly foreshadowed.

Martin the Warrior
November 23rd, 2005, 11:04 AM
It's a shame that the other thread got completely deleted when only the offending posts could've been removed.

It didn't. Short-term, it was quicker to zap the whole thing and get the garbage off the board. But, I'll be able to restore the non-offensive posts, no problem, as soon as I've got a few minutes to sort them all out. They're all there-- you just can't see them. ;)

It's next up after the upgrade.

RockJaw_Grang
November 23rd, 2005, 11:08 AM
Oh OK I guess I was A bit hasty with my starting of another one..

Martin the Warrior
November 23rd, 2005, 03:41 PM
There you go. Good as new. Resume your morbid discussion about death. ;)

Ms.Chibimoon-daae
November 25th, 2005, 12:21 PM
Thank you Martin!

chupacabra
November 28th, 2005, 12:01 PM
In the PEarls of Lutra, i was surprised they died so easily and those foxes in Marlfox.:confused:

Badrang3
November 28th, 2005, 06:08 PM
who's this "they" you speak of?

chupacabra
November 28th, 2005, 10:19 PM
the vermin of course.

Badrang3
November 29th, 2005, 05:52 PM
I'm not sure how you think they died any easier in Pearls of Lutra than in any other book. :confused: