Was There Really A Plan? WARNING*SPOILERS*WARNING

[Josiah the Warrior]

DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! Read no further in this thread if you have yet to read The Half Blood Prince!


I've been arguing about this with my friends quite a bit lately (lame as that may sound:p), some of them agree with me that Snape had some sort of plan with Dumbledore to kill him. I must know. Vote! (Please;))

A few quick reasons I think Snape and Dumbledore fixed it:
1) Dumbledore says "please Severus please," he's a proud, brave man who would never beg for his life. If he truly believe Snape was good, then his betrayal would have been a shock, and Dumbledore would have had something to say to him besides "please", why not "why"?
2) Hagrid said he overheard Snape and D-man arguing about summat in the Forest and that Snape sounded like he didn't want to do something. Like kill Dumbledore, mayhaps. Remember how much Rowling likes to foreshadow...
3) Snape made the Unbreakable Vow too quickly, with far too little thought on his behalf for something that serious. He thought it out beforehand and banked on Narcissa asking him to do a U.V.; no one makes that kind of a commitment without a second thought, especially one that serious.

[Bladeswift]

I could go either way at the moment. I don't particularly care, either, because considering that all will be revealed in the end, speculation is pointless.

[Josiah the Warrior]

speculation is pointless.
Maybe so, but it sure does make for interesting conversation, doncha think?

[LordTBT]

yes. there was. Rowling likes to think she is clever.

[Folgrimeo]

I don't think so. Snape seemed so evil at the beginning of this book that it wasn't much of a surprise that Snape would kill someone. That and the constant teasing that Dumbledore might be incredibly dumb to trust in Snape. Okay, maybe a surprise that the killed character was Dumbledore, but... I don't know really. Went to a site and I saw "Snape killed Dumbledore!" everywhere, so I was another victim of having the ending blown (at least several parodies resulted from it). But I stopped caring before Dumbledore died, so I don't think I lost much out of it.

[Tesra]

We also discussed that point with friends. My opinion is Dumbledore's right to trust Snape, i never doubt really of this. Several points are going in this way. If Snape is really evil, why didn't it try to kill Harry before ? It had lots of occasions ! And for the fourth book, the scene in the graveyard : why Snape wasn't there, so ??? Because he isn't evil. It would be an magnificient occasion to leave the side of Dumbledore, but it didn't go there.

Of course, it could be said that Snape is a very tortuous character, and plays both games.
I think Dumbledore understand at that very moment at the top of Astronomy Tower that Snape HAVE to kill him, crowned like that by Death-eaters, to appears to them like a friend, and always have a foot in Voldemort's circle.
Nonetheless, i'm not sure Dumbledore ask Snape to kill him...

[Bladeswift]

Maybe so, but it sure does make for interesting conversation, doncha think?
I prefer leaving speculation to things that can never be proven or disproved.

[Ember Nickel]

Well, there's a theoretical chance Rowling could die before writing any explanatory segments in the seventh book, thus leaving it permanently unknown.

[Lonna Bowstripe]

It doesn't matter. Period. Statement. Declarative Sentence. Clear?;)

[Josiah the Warrior]

It doesn't matter.
I sure hope you don't mean that it doesn't matter whether Dumbledore told Snape to kill him. Because if you do, you just might have a bunch of curses thrown at you by people who read the books too much.

[LordTBT]

Snape seemed so evil at the beginning of this book that it wasn't much of a surprise that Snape would kill someone.

So why did he protect harry in book 1? For the heck of it? To trick Dumbledore? :rolleyes: You can't trick the greatest wizard of all time :p

[Ember Nickel]

So why did he protect harry in book 1? For the heck of it? To trick Dumbledore? :rolleyes: You can't trick the greatest wizard of all time :pBecause James had saved his life, and he wanted to return the favor.

[LordTBT]

Because James had saved his life, and he wanted to return the favor.

Humbug I say. That wasnt the sole reason.

[Josiah the Warrior]

Because James had saved his life, and he wanted to return the favor.
If he was really a Deatheater, he wouldn't care, if he really was bad and believed in Voldemorts cause, James would be scum to him.
Humbug I say. That wasnt the sole reason.
Finally something we can agree on.:p

[Lord Voldemort]

I don't truly think Dumbledore is dead and this is my reason.
Conversation between Dumbeledore and Malfoy- " He cannot kill you if you are already dead.Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completley than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort proably expects it. Nor would the death eatersbe surprised that we had captured and killed your mother. It is what they would do themselves.

Basicaly Dumbledore is saying he can make it look like Malfoy is dead. Wouldn't that mean that Snape could make it look like Dumbledore was dead?

[Ferdy and Coggs]

We'll never know for sure without some hard evidence. And besides, maybe Rowling doesn't want us to know. that's what makes books so cool, not knowing the cause to effects.:p

[The_Outcast_of_Redwall]

I think it's likely that he was asking Snape to kill him, so I voted for probably.

[Chelki Sureshot]

Maybe, but why would Dumbledore want to die? I stopped like Dumbledore in the 5th book. I think he's prbalby dead. he fell over that wall and they buried him. Maybe somebody took polyjuice, but that would be kinda redundant. I voted doubtful.

[Josiah the Warrior]

Maybe, but why would Dumbledore want to die?
Ah, my dear girl, the question is not why Dumbledore wanted to die, but did he want to die?;)

[Lukesed]

Maybe he thought Snape was more valuable to the order as a spy.

[Chelki Sureshot]

Ah, my dear girl, the question is not why Dumbledore wanted to die, but did he want to die?;)But if he did want to die, then why?

[Lonna Bowstripe]

So Voldemort would come out in the open and the Order or Harry could kill him. Say, would his Horcruxes still work if Harry, like, stabbed him with a knife or something?

[LordTBT]

Or.....DID he really die? ;)

[Chelki Sureshot]

I think he's probably dead. he fell over that wall and they buried him.I have no idea abou tthe horcruxes

[Lukesed]

What if Harry became depressed and killed himself?

[Josiah the Warrior]

Or.....DID he really die? ;)
Darn you, Teebs, trying to get us to start a debate over the validity of his death. (He is dead by the way, and I know you think he is too):p

But if he did want to die, then why?
Impossible to predict.

I have no idea abou tthe horcruxes
What's the confusion, maybe I can explain it to you?

[LordTBT]

Darn you, Teebs, trying to get us to start a debate over the validity of his death. (He is dead by the way, and I know you think he is too)

We had the Sirius-theorists. There can be Dumbledore ones too :p

[Josiah the Warrior]

We had the Sirius-theorists. There can be Dumbledore ones too :p
Aye, but there's a difference between Avada Kedavra and falling through some silly curtain. *Mutters darkly*

[Chelki Sureshot]

I meant that I don't know if the horcuxes would still work if Harry stabbed Voldemort with a knife.

[Lonna Bowstripe]

Exactly! The horcruxes obviously work for something magical, but how would they stop a physical killing? When Harry's about to decapitate Voldemort, suddenly his hand meets an invisible barrier right at the throat. Seriously.

[Ember Nickel]

Also, if Snape was working for the death eaters, why did he inform the Order of Sirius's "capture" in book 5?

[Lukesed]

Exactly! The horcruxes obviously work for something magical, but how would they stop a physical killing? When Harry's about to decapitate Voldemort, suddenly his hand meets an invisible barrier right at the throat. Seriously.But that isn't what a horcrux does. Your body dies, but your soul remains.

[Josiah the Warrior]

Exactly! The horcruxes obviously work for something magical, but how would they stop a physical killing? When Harry's about to decapitate Voldemort, suddenly his hand meets an invisible barrier right at the throat. Seriously.
What happens is what happened in the first book; Voldemort dies and his body is gone, but his soul drifts on until he can get a new body, like in the Goblet of Fire. Remember the Sorcerors Stone? What happened to Quirrel? That's basically what happens.

[Lonna Bowstripe]

Huh--I've always thought that a fragment of his body still remained; that's what possessed Quirrel and the diary. Then Pettigrew mixed his hand, Harry's blood and Riddle Sr.'s bone with the body fragment and it rose again.

[Josiah the Warrior]

Huh--I've always thought that a fragment of his body still remained; that's what possessed Quirrel and the diary. Then Pettigrew mixed his hand, Harry's blood and Riddle Sr.'s bone with the body fragment and it rose again.
Yup, and that fragment is his soul. It's like this; he's got seven "lives" because he has invested his soul into 6 objects plus himself, and, if he dies, he just uses another "life", aka another 1/7th of his soul, and doesn't die. It's kinda like pacman, see?:p

[Lukesed]

Yup, and that fragment is his soul. It's like this; he's got seven "lives" because he has invested his soul into 6 objects plus himself, and, if he dies, he just uses another "life", aka another 1/7th of his soul, and doesn't die. It's kinda like pacman, see?:p
I don't think that's it. Harry could just avada kedavra him six times in a row. I think it only removes his soul from his body.

[Lord Voldemort]

Exactly! The horcruxes obviously work for something magical, but how would they stop a physical killing? When Harry's about to decapitate Voldemort, suddenly his hand meets an invisible barrier right at the throat. Seriously.
Decapitate me! Oh no! Lonna's figured out the trick!
Aye, but there's a difference between Avada Kedavra and falling through some silly curtain. *Mutters darkly*
I agree! Stupid curtains. I still don't understand quite how that could trap some one forever. I say Harry should just go in there and cut the curtains down you know. But then again there might be some terrible creature on the other side that has sharp razor fangs! Like in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
Yes,yes J.K. Rowling might just be that twisted I see it now. Ha Ron you idiot you got your head bit off. Ah,good times, good times.

[Cheesethief]

Actually, I was arguing this very issue with a friend every day last term.

Yup, and that fragment is his soul. It's like this; he's got seven "lives" because he has invested his soul into 6 objects plus himself, and, if he dies, he just uses another "life", aka another 1/7th of his soul, and doesn't die. It's kinda like pacman, see?

No, that can't be it. Then there would be less horcruxes to destroy.

Have there been any more theories about RAB?

[Josiah the Warrior]

No, that can't be it. Then there would be less horcruxes to destroy.
Thanks for coming back from the dead to destroy my theory....




;)

[LadyBeelze]

Also, if Snape was working for the death eaters, why did he inform the Order of Sirius's "capture" in book 5?

Haven't you heard of killing 2 birds with one stone? If Snape was in cahoots with Voldermort & the other deather eaters wouldn't it of been a great plan in theroy to have all the Order Of Pheonix members there. Then they & Harry could of died. But that's not what happened, of course.

Anyways, I don't have a clue nor do I care. Lets just wait and find out. :3

[Bladeswift]

Anyways, I don't have a clue nor do I care. Lets just wait and find out. :3
Nice to know I'm not the only one who doesn't obsess over things like this.

[Josiah the Warrior]

Nice to know I'm not the only one who doesn't obsess over things like this.
I don't think obsess is quite the right word for it. I sincerely doubt anyone who posts in this thread loses sleep over it; it's just that our interest contrasts so starkly with your lack of interest, we may appear extremely into it.

[Bladeswift]

Meh. I couldn't think of any fancy word for "thinks about this stuff a lot," so I used obsess. Though when Cheesethief said "Actually, I was arguing this very issue with a friend every day last term" I was slightly taken aback.

[SpearladyThyme]

Yup, and that fragment is his soul. It's like this; he's got seven "lives" because he has invested his soul into 6 objects plus himself, and, if he dies, he just uses another "life", aka another 1/7th of his soul, and doesn't die. It's kinda like pacman, see?:p

As far as my understanding goes, it's more like this:
The soul which resides in his body is the main or biggest piece, and cannot be destroyed unless all the other parts of his soul--the horcruxes--are eliminated beforehand. There is no interchanging of pieces. No matter how many times you try to kill Voldemort, the same part of his soul will come back again, and the same parts of his soul will be in their respective horcruxes. Does that make sense?

PS~I'm not obsessed. I don't even consider myself a fan. I'm just a thorough reader. And I am perfectly content to let J.K.Rowling explain herself (and Snape) in the seventh book.

PPS~Cheesethief: Regulus Black, the now-deceased former deatheater and cousin to Sirius?

[Tesra]

PPS~Cheesethief: Regulus Black, the now-deceased former deatheater and cousin to Sirius?

I have also this theory, so have many friends. He's the only one we can guess, I believe.

[Ember Nickel]

Regulus Black, the now-deceased former deatheater and cousin to Sirius?They were brothers.