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Nora the Rover
March 22nd, 2003, 04:05 PM
I know this may sound rather weird, but I like looking at different views of what people think of Redwall Usually, I find the typical topics of 'Favorite Somethingorother' rather redundant, and repeated too often.
I was wondering what people find most annoying, or dislike about the books. Although I'm an obsessed Redwall fanatic, there are a few things about the books that annoy me.

For instance: Time. The 'season' thing gets rather confusing, and I was wondering if there are ever 'ages' in the history of the world of Redwall. Dark Ages, Reniassance, etc. Have the creatures ever progressed from the Middle Ages? How many seasons are there between Lord Brocktree, and Triss?
etc.
Also, I've wondered if there are other lands, as in Triss, that have bamboo and hamsters.

Lyrian Aryns
March 22nd, 2003, 04:55 PM
The feast scenes are rather annoying, I guess... they've just never intrigued me. I suppose a number of people enjoy them, but I often find myself skimming quickly to get past 'em. *shrug*

Oh, and... when do those little rodents go to the bathroom?! ;)

VanessaNB
March 22nd, 2003, 05:40 PM
Where do hamsters come from? Syria and Germany, as far as I know. I guess there would have to be other lands than Mossflower and so on, unless it's like Pangea...
I don't like the vermin stereotype thing, even though I doubt it's gonna change. I used to love rottweilers and such (wait...I still do), so it seems odd to me that all the creatures of one species could be the same.

MoonShadow
March 22nd, 2003, 08:03 PM
The... poems. And songs. I always find myself skipping them, maybe unconsciencely intentially. ;) Poems usually aren't the most intriguing things to me... sometimes, they can be interesting, but not always. The ones like a puzzle like in Redwall are the ones that I like better.

Martin the Warrior
March 22nd, 2003, 10:52 PM
The requisite stupid vermin. I always like it when the villains are competent. :D

Airemia
March 23rd, 2003, 08:24 AM
I can't really think of anything that annoys me right now, to tell you the truth...

BladeLady Scourge
March 25th, 2003, 05:26 PM
The requisite stupid vermin. I always like it when the villains are competent.
me too.
a
nd i also dislike the "evil vermin" "good woodlander" sterotype"...well, i like it when an occasional good guy turns bad guy and vice versa is what i mean, but not all the time, cause that would kinda destroy the essense persay of the redwall world.
i enjoyed the characters like Blaggut and Frup...keeps ya surprised.

Darkhood_343
March 26th, 2003, 09:01 AM
The one thing that annoys me is that there haven't been any good, smart vermin. The good ones have been stupid. Or angry. Or backstabbers.

Pennybright
March 26th, 2003, 10:41 PM
When I read the books I found the poems, songs, rymes, etc. annoying, but when I listened to them on audio cassete they weren't that bad.

Darkhood_343
March 27th, 2003, 11:15 AM
I still had to listen to the songs and poems on audio cassette and I still wasannoyed by 'em. I had to listen to 'em anyway cause my mom likes 'em.

VanessaNB
March 27th, 2003, 04:38 PM
Having all bad one species and all good the other wouldn't be so bad if some of the vermin could at least form a coherent sentence and some goodbeasts weren't geniouses with a hick accent. I meant nothing against hicks when I said that;)
But really, 'ow can alla the vermin be so stoopid an' all th' good guys be so darn smart? It boggles m'mind, and...well, it ain't that hard fer me t'be boggled. Bah. *watches Buddy being pathetic*

true_redwaller
April 3rd, 2003, 08:19 PM
I hate to say it but the story is kinda gettin' old to me. It seems like the same thing over and over...good verses evil....A warrior with some type of problem fights a mean evil villian, the good guys win and that's the end of the story.

Calantorntain
April 3rd, 2003, 09:32 PM
Humm... well, I like some songs and poems (The funny or 'scary' ones) but some of them annoy me. They are just there to be there. Blah. But I like about 36 poems.

Furrtil
April 3rd, 2003, 10:01 PM
I, personally, am annoyed at the lack of moles. Wait...no I'm not, moles get good parts. I'm annoyed that Gonff got so much more presstime and heroic praise when Dinny did a good large amount of the work, too.

I was annoyed when Brian Jacques changed the Guosim to the Guosssom. What the heck does the Guosssom stand for? Guosim stands for Guerilla Union of Shrews in Mossflower, does the other stand for Guerilla Union of Skinny Short Shrews of Mossflower?

And what happened to Gurrbowl? Humm, a change of age and gender between books?

The poems and good/bad stereotypes and feasts are some of my favorite parts. To each his own.

Calantorntain
April 3rd, 2003, 10:48 PM
Jacques changed the Guosim to the Guosssom

When did he do this? I don't remember it...

Martin the Warrior
April 3rd, 2003, 11:24 PM
Technically, he didn't change it-- he introduced a branch.

Calan-- the GUOSSSOM were the shrews that Mara and Pikkle encountered in Salamandastron. I don't believe they used that acronym ever again- which stood for "Guerilla Union of South Stream Shrews of Mossflower" (their branch being farther south and all. ;)).

MoonShadow
April 4th, 2003, 08:05 PM
Well, there's a lot of things that annoy me when it comes to the pronounciation of character names.... Especially Guosim.

Martin the Warrior
April 4th, 2003, 10:30 PM
Such as? (I find the name pronunciations a fascinating aspect of the stories/audio books.)

Keyla
June 15th, 2003, 05:06 PM
I guess I'm just average guy Joe Bloggs when it comes to annoyances: stupidly dumb vermin almost all the time, if that means what it's supposed to mean; when there are way too many songs, though I like the vast majority of them. It annoys me when I can see something like a death coming too much, though often that's my fault for looking at the ending of each of the last few chapters when I get the new book, so I guess it is mostly self-inflicted.
Some people find dibbuns annoying but I think they work well to balance and juxtapose, my favorite word, vermin and such like, making it a more vibrant world.

Dannflower Reguba
June 16th, 2003, 07:06 PM
My main annoyance is when BJ won't make up his mind.

Log-a-log or Log a log?

Melee or Mle?

He's constantly switching between them and it's starting to drive me mad.

Nora the Rover
June 17th, 2003, 09:21 AM
Another thing I find irritating is the long, drawn-out, dramatic deaths of 'good' creatures, or the main villains. In every book, BJ always has a central or supporting character die, it's terribly annoying...
I also dislike the 'Black and White' idea, as there are several characters in the books who are a sort of 'grey'. I'm really getting tired of the whole ridiculous debate over 'grey', or 'black and white', it's been going around the ROC for years, and has seriously been getting on peoples' nerves...

Keyla
June 17th, 2003, 11:24 AM
Even with grey characters we kind of know whom we're meant to like: you're made to sympathise with Blaggut when you see him being consistantly being belittled by his captain and playing with the dibbuns; Romsca constantly rubs Lask up the wrong way, thus endearing herself to the reader. Veil is perhaps the only truly grey character, though he is condemed as being evil at the end of "Outcast of Redwall" by the two key figures of authority in the book and the heroine, though whether we should agree with them has never been quite put to rest. Demands for grey are pointless; Brian will write what he thinks works for him. All the "Brian should" comments get right up my nose!

Slagar the Cruel
June 17th, 2003, 08:32 PM
Uh... Dwopple.

Also, how BJ has kept fast-forwarding through what seems like thousands of seasons between all of the books recently. Redwall's going to crumble apart from age pretty soon! ;)

Darkhood_343
June 18th, 2003, 12:07 AM
One more thing. Jumping. From one time to one time. When I introduce the book to my friends, I can't really tell them to read them in chronological order. I hate that also. And Slags, hasn't the abbey already fallen apart. At least one? Or, at least a wall...

Dannflower Reguba
June 18th, 2003, 05:47 AM
Well that was only because they built it on top of Kotir. The wall itself was in good condition, but it was sinking.

And Slagar, note that this is merely a hypothesis, but I believe BJ took such great leaps for us. He realizes that children all over the world love his work, and that they might try writing fanfictions. I should know, I'm working on one right now. I think he's leaving that gap there to "give us space". What was Russano's life like? Perhaps he's waiting for US to tell HIM? *shrugs* Just a guess.

Martin the Warrior
June 18th, 2003, 04:54 PM
Slagar
Also, how BJ has kept fast-forwarding through what seems like thousands of seasons between all of the books recently.

Really? They've seemed rather closely knit to me, with the possible exception of Triss.

Pearls of Lutra had the generation immediately following Mattimeo. The Long Patrol had the youngsters of POL grown up. Marlfox showed us life directly after the grown-ups from TLP had died. The Legend of Luke and Lord Brocktree were set in the past, irrelevant to recent history (unless you count Russano in LB). And Taggerung showed us the end of Cregga's reign as Badgermum, directly tying it in to Marlfox, as well as Russano's rule, a nod to TLP. The only "blip", as it were, is Triss, eight badger-generations later. It was BJ's first book to have a completely original cast since Salamandastron.


Darkhood
One more thing. Jumping. From one time to one time. When I introduce the book to my friends, I can't really tell them to read them in chronological order. I hate that also.

I find that makes the series rather accessable and newbie-friendly. All you need to say is "The Redwall Series by Brian Jacques" and let your friend decide which one sounds best. It's not required to read in chronological order and thus one need not stress over "Am I reading the right one?"

Also, if you take out the "jumping around", we'd lose half the series. Lord Brocktree, Martin the Warrior, Mossflower, The Legend of Luke, Outcast of Redwall, Mariel of Redwall, The Bellmaker, and Salamandastron were all set prior to the first book. If BJ had only "gone forward", he'd never have been able to do them.

Keyla
June 19th, 2003, 12:12 PM
I think if you have more than one vermin band/army/group of five attacking the abbey in a generation then it would loose its sense of being a haven of peace. In addition, I think the "histories" such as "Martin the Warrior", "The Legend of Luke", "Mossflower" and others are a good thing; if Brian had just continued in a linear fashion after "Redwall" then the tales would end up being stuck with the same scenarios; by chopping and changing he gives variety and also a greater sense of history and continuity by back referencing to "ancient" tales

Slagar the Cruel
June 19th, 2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Dannflower Reguba
And Slagar, note that this is merely a hypothesis, but I believe BJ took such great leaps for us. He realizes that children all over the world love his work, and that they might try writing fanfictions. I should know, I'm working on one right now. I think he's leaving that gap there to "give us space". What was Russano's life like? Perhaps he's waiting for US to tell HIM? *shrugs* Just a guess.
I have a feeling that if Brian even knows that we do write fanfiction (I guess he's picked it up from letters, book signings and the like), he doesn't really care much about it either way.

Originally posted by Martin the Warrior
Really? They've seemed rather closely knit to me, with the possible exception of Triss.

Pearls of Lutra had the generation immediately following Mattimeo. The Long Patrol had the youngsters of POL grown up. Marlfox showed us life directly after the grown-ups from TLP had died. The Legend of Luke and Lord Brocktree were set in the past, irrelevant to recent history (unless you count Russano in LB). And Taggerung showed us the end of Cregga's reign as Badgermum, directly tying it in to Marlfox, as well as Russano's rule, a nod to TLP. The only "blip", as it were, is Triss, eight badger-generations later. It was BJ's first book to have a completely original cast since Salamandastron.
As Gabool would say... "I really need to read the books again".