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Sleet Wintergreen
October 4th, 2007, 09:13 PM
I just wanted to put my two cents in on some of the criticisms people have about the show. There are some that puzzle me, some I agree with, and some of my own I haven't seen. (keep in mind I've only seen the first two seasons, and the very end of Martin the Warrior.)

First off, I don't see what is wrong with Rose's ponytail. That seems like a really strange thing to complain about.

One complaint I REALLY don't get is Clogg being fat. The book distinctly describes him as "an enormously fat stoat."

On the same note, I don't get people not liking Stonefleck's voice...I though the guy nailed it right on the head. His voice is *supposed* to be flat and toneless.

Pallum being a girl...I don't think that ruins anything, but it is rather inexplicable.

Martin abandoning the sword...obviously a mistake by the writers.

Tickle torture...I can't defend that. However, the whole torturing Skalrag bit never made much sense to me...why is Badrang torturing his own minion for information?

I agree that Badrang looks like a wolf...nothing about him is right. His fur is gray when it should be brown, his tail is long and bushy where it should be short and fuzzy, and his ears are big and pointed when they should be small and round. Even the shape of his head is more canine than mustelid.

The birds in Mattimeo are too big, I definitely agree with that. I understand that they need to be a certain size to be menacing, but come on...Mangiz is bigger than *Constance?* If crows were that big, Thrugg and Dumble wouldn't have had a chance!

I didn't like how they pronounced Badrang...I'd always said it with the accent on the "drang."

One criticism I haven't seen that bugged the heck out of me in all three seasons is how all the weasels, stoats and ferrets are drawn with buck teeth. Weasels aren't rodents, they're carnivores! All their front teeth are sharp! Someone on another board said Threeclaws looked like a hamster, and I'm inclined to agree...

Now, I've only seen the last episode of MtW, but from what I've seen it almost seems like they made Druwp a sympathetic character, instead of the despicible little pimple that he is. A mistake, if it's true...Druwp is one of the most hated characters in the whole series, and that should have been represented.

Is it me, or did Martin and Amballa playfully throwing Crosstooth to his death as opposed to just stabbing him seem kind of sadistic ?

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else, but I know I'm not the only one who's thinking it: Of all the female animals, why are badgers the only ones with breasts?

Lastly, a few minor complaints of mine are due to the animators not having enough knowledge of the Redwall universe: the occasional sightings of New World produce (corn, oranges, lemons) at the Redwall tables, and the moles being depicted as star-nosed moles, which I believe only live in the Americas. A similar mistake is in the American cover of Outcast, where Veil is depicted as a North American Black Footed Ferret. If he's a european ferret, he should just be whitish-grey all over, like the ones you see in the pet shops.

Josiah the Warrior
October 4th, 2007, 09:32 PM
I've only seen a couple episodes of the show and I didn't much care for it, but I'd like to give you a resounding welcome to the LPF; it's always refreshing to get a new member who uses good grammar, doesn't spam, and writes thoughtful posts. Please stick around!

Sleet Wintergreen
October 4th, 2007, 10:09 PM
Thanks, it's nice to be here.

Badrang3
October 4th, 2007, 10:12 PM
First off, I don't see what is wrong with Rose's ponytail. That seems like a really strange thing to complain about.

I concur. It's hard to have several animal characters running around without giving them some kind of unique characteristique to set them apart.


Pallum being a girl...I don't think that ruins anything, but it is rather inexplicable.

The reason I think that it's a decisevly unpopular move is because there really is no reason to have done it. Seriously, when the gender of a character you've become familiar with is suddenly switched, you're going to be a little shocked.


Tickle torture...I can't defend that. However, the whole torturing Skalrag bit never made much sense to me...why is Badrang torturing his own minion for information?

Yeah, really. How are we supposed to hate a guy who wickedly tickles people? BTW, he was tortouring him to gain information about Clogg.


I agree that Badrang looks like a wolf...nothing about him is right. His fur is gray when it should be brown, his tail is long and bushy where it should be short and fuzzy, and his ears are big and pointed when they should be small and round. Even the shape of his head is more canine than mustelid.

Exactly. You have to wonder if the artists were really aware as to what a stoat is.



The birds in Mattimeo are too big, I definitely agree with that. I understand that they need to be a certain size to be menacing, but come on...Mangiz is bigger than *Constance?* If crows were that big, Thrugg and Dumble wouldn't have had a chance!

I'm not sure about that one. They had to be reasonably bigger than the mice, and since Constance is only a little taller than they are, some kind of misproportion was bound to happen.



Is it me, or did Martin and Amballa playfully throwing Crosstooth to his death as opposed to just stabbing him seem kind of sadistic ?

Well, you have to get your kicks somewhere.


I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else, but I know I'm not the only one who's thinking it: Of all the female animals, why are badgers the only ones with breasts?

A very, very strange think tank at approximately 3:00 am can be blamed for that...

Balmafula
October 4th, 2007, 11:45 PM
These are interesting counterpoints. I think a whole lot of them make sense, especially because some of the issues (like Rose's ponytail) seem to sound a bit weird to me. Also, I kinda think its funny that you prounced Badrang that way, but I'm all for interesting name pronunciation interpretations (ha! Try saying that ten times fast!) After all, I pronounce Jeefra with the french J with the accent on the fra, so I really should be complaining.

Okay, sorry, I'll stay on topic now. My own personal upsetment (is that even a word? I really don't think so) with the show is that its dumbed down, which I really think was a mistake. Sure Redwall is a book geared more towards pre-teens/teens, but that doesn't mean that people who read it are immature. I mean, the animation just makes it seem to cartoony which I can't respect. I think it should have been handled more like Watership Down; you know what I mean? I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you can have an animated television series involving talking animals that's not ridiculously kiddy, especially when the stories themselves are not "kiddy" at all.

Folgrimeo
October 5th, 2007, 12:14 AM
Joy, another thread where I can reply to multiple statements!

First off, I don't see what is wrong with Rose's ponytail. That seems like a really strange thing to complain about.

I didn't see anything wrong with it either. Just thought of it as a nice detail. If nothing else, furthers the idea that these animals in some ways act human, although I don't see why Rose would need a ponytail. But I think the ponytail looks stunning on Aryah (http://www.noxfilm.ru/Slides/747.jpg), where it loosely hangs over the shoulder. She just looks stunning in general, I can see where Rose got her looks.

One complaint I REALLY don't get is Clogg being fat. The book distinctly describes him as "an enormously fat stoat."

Well, as it turns out, that was one detail I somehow skipped. So the entire book I thought Clogg was a stoat version of Captain Jack Sparrow. Look at the modern Russian cover for "Martin the Warrior", that's precisely how I imagined Clogg. As a result, I was shocked to see Clogg in the TV show. Granted that if we paid close attention to the details, our vision of Clogg should approximate the slob in the TV show, but still... I thought Clogg had class. Badrang did, so I sort of expected any other pirate to share that trait. Guess not. No wonder Badrang didn't like him.

On the same note, I don't get people not liking Stonefleck's voice...I though the guy nailed it right on the head. His voice is *supposed* to be flat and toneless.

A bit weird perhaps, but I didn't seem to notice. Probably since I barely remember Stonefleck at all. In general the books don't seem to do much with vermin, so they recede into the background - therefore I wouldn't expect the TV show to radically change my view of them.

Pallum being a girl...I don't think that ruins anything, but it is rather inexplicable.

True, but I welcome the change because of the great voice they got for her. And since I'm male, sometimes I'd be more interested or sympathetic to the female characters... so this one danger scene was all the more powerful. But, oy, that doesn't much change my reaction to her rendition of the "frog is frog, hedgehog is hedgehog" song, her voice isn't quite bouncy enough to make that work.

Martin abandoning the sword...obviously a mistake by the writers.

No debating that, I agree.

Tickle torture...I can't defend that. However, the whole torturing Skalrag bit never made much sense to me...why is Badrang torturing his own minion for information?

Well, Skalrag was snatched up by Clogg, so maybe Skalrag changed loyalties or something, I forget. The tickle torture was pretty ridiculous compared to the relative darkness of the rest of the show, but to threaten skinning Skalrag as in the original book would have stuck out like a sore thumb.

I agree that Badrang looks like a wolf...nothing about him is right. His fur is gray when it should be brown, his tail is long and bushy where it should be short and fuzzy, and his ears are big and pointed when they should be small and round. Even the shape of his head is more canine than mustelid.

This I didn't mind because I think he looks awesome in his wolf/wolverine form. Considering I saw the TV rendition of Badrang before the book illustrations, I can't shake the wolverine look out of my head. And I'm wild for canines, so... forget about what was intended, I like Badrang's TV form. Makes him look more interesting to me.

The birds in Mattimeo are too big, I definitely agree with that. I understand that they need to be a certain size to be menacing, but come on...Mangiz is bigger than *Constance?* If crows were that big, Thrugg and Dumble wouldn't have had a chance!

Hmm, never noticed they were bigger than Constance. But considering the crows invading the Abbey was the high point of "Mattimeo" for me, emphasizing their intimidation is exactly what I would have asked for.

I didn't like how they pronounced Badrang...I'd always said it with the accent on the "drang."

I disagree, I pronounce it as BAD-rang. But hey, maybe we should look to the radioplay for an official pronunciation of the name. I'm not immune to being riled up when someone puts stress on a different syllable of a name - like when someone was reviewing the PS2 game "Okami" and they pronounced Amaterasu differently... but then, that's not an easy name to say at first, let alone remember.

One criticism I haven't seen that bugged the heck out of me in all three seasons is how all the weasels, stoats and ferrets are drawn with buck teeth. Weasels aren't rodents, they're carnivores! All their front teeth are sharp! Someone on another board said Threeclaws looked like a hamster, and I'm inclined to agree...

Again, didn't notice, but I'd guess the buck teeth would emphasize they're a bit dumb (that argument means nothing since all the mice and probably other species in the show have buck teeth too). I personally don't mind buck teeth, seems to complete their look, just as long as they're not so large as to make the character look goofy.
...who was Threeclaws again? Another vermin I don't remember.

Now, I've only seen the last episode of MtW, but from what I've seen it almost seems like they made Druwp a sympathetic character, instead of the despicible little pimple that he is. A mistake, if it's true...Druwp is one of the most hated characters in the whole series, and that should have been represented.

I didn't pick up on that since he frowns most of the time, making threats to the slaves and being the spy that he is. For some reason I thought he was one of the better characters for the third season (I placed Grumm in first because he single-handedly redeemed every mole in the series thanks to how enjoyable molespeech is in his rustic voice). But I never thought Druwp was so despicable in the show as to make me scowl whenever he appeared onscreen, so I guess you could say he wasn't represented as well as he could have been.

Is it me, or did Martin and Amballa playfully throwing Crosstooth to his death as opposed to just stabbing him seem kind of sadistic ?

Seemed out of character (risky for momentarily killing the mood for some people), but hey, if they're getting some kind of enjoyment in the heat of battle, I say let them have their fun. It worked for me because Amballa looks scary when she smiles during that scene. But when Amballa and Martin were getting ready to toss Crosstooth, that throw didn't look convincing. And come on, this show was watered down for kids (although I'm surprised it went as far as it did); they wouldn't show Crosstooth getting stabbed, and certainly they wouldn't stab him without at least ten seconds of anticipation.

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else, but I know I'm not the only one who's thinking it: Of all the female animals, why are badgers the only ones with breasts?

Ignoring the fact that I don't mind this (I've seen too much furry art), my theory is that it's a symbol of their motherhood. I don't know whether it goes back to the stereotypical African-American "mamma" thing. It just makes sense to me because a mother would seem to have an air of invincibility. We already know the female badgers are usually the mother figures or guardians of the books. And maybe it'd invoke that same impression with other viewers, that they're mother figures since they vaguely resemble other mother characters. In any case, surely the TV show artists had a reason for doing this other than for the heck of it.
That said, I'm glad no other characters in the series have that feature (I don't think many people would expect it), although I could argue their body build means it wouldn't be noticeable. Seems to happen mostly to the fat characters in shows.

Lastly, a few minor complaints of mine are due to the animators not having enough knowledge of the Redwall universe: the occasional sightings of New World produce (corn, oranges, lemons) at the Redwall tables, and the moles being depicted as star-nosed moles, which I believe only live in the Americas. A similar mistake is in the American cover of Outcast, where Veil is depicted as a North American Black Footed Ferret. If he's a european ferret, he should just be whitish-grey all over, like the ones you see in the pet shops.

New World produce, point taken, although again I didn't notice it. Maybe it's to provide some level of familiarity.
Moles being depicted as star-nosed moles, eh? This was one of my reasons for hating them because they didn't look good at all (Grumm somehow bucked that trend). Nice to know moles exist that don't have that ugly feature.
The Veil argument is irrelevant because the TV show never covered "Outcast", but again I didn't notice. However, that actually makes sense, because in America we would think of a ferret as a North American black-footed ferret. I think the badgers for the American covers retained their European species though, not sure.

Fuzface
October 5th, 2007, 08:52 AM
Hello, newbie. I'm Fuzface. I'm an insane, pessmistic, rude, obnoxious critc who hates everything, and is not afraid to show it. But I haven't seen the show.....so I can't hate it.

Qlberts
October 5th, 2007, 09:20 AM
Well, I have only seen Redwall: The Movie and the first episode of Mattimeo so far, but I'll say this: I don't really have all that many complaints. My main complaint actually concerns the Guosim - they don't look like the savages I pictured when I read the book. But in general, I like the show. I really like the look, and although it's a little sad that the violence had to be toned down, I understand why it had to happen.

Of course, I have a whole slew of complaints about the Dutch dub, but that discussion has it's own topic. (http://forums.longpatrolclub.com/showthread.php?t=5271)

redwallfan91
October 5th, 2007, 12:16 PM
I've seen, and own, all three seasons. I love them. Sure, there are discrepancies, but I still love them. There are very few things that I don't like about them.

Have to wonder though, what did you mean Martin abandoning the sword?

Druwp was represtented accurately, if you ask me. You'll have to see the other episodes to be able to see it though.

Petunia
October 5th, 2007, 07:33 PM
I didn't like how they pronounced Badrang...I'd always said it with the accent on the "drang." I agree with most of your criticisms, but I always accent the "bad". Same with Badred and Badrag. I guess it's because they are "bad" characters, just like TsarMINA is Mean.


Martin abandoning the sword...obviously a mistake by the writers.
I agree, but I also noticed that he really didn't use the blade again after Tsarmina broke it, so only the hilt was ever used in battle again. Still, the hilt is part of the original sword, and abandoning it means abandoning all of it. Makes you wonder about all the other promises he made to the Noonvalers...

rowanoak
October 11th, 2007, 02:17 PM
I thought Druwp was done pretty well, I didn't have any sympathy for him. His voice actor made him sound kind of like a punk. I wonder who his VA was.

Silverfang
November 7th, 2007, 03:33 PM
First off, I don't see what is wrong with Rose's ponytail. That seems like a really strange thing to complain about.

Ok, I always liked the fact that they gave rose a ponytail. What annoyed me was her mothers hair. Idk why but her moms hair annoyed me -.-

One complaint I REALLY don't get is Clogg being fat. The book distinctly describes him as "an enormously fat stoat."

Yeah, some people dont pay attention to things.

On the same note, I don't get people not liking Stonefleck's voice...I though the guy nailed it right on the head. His voice is *supposed* to be flat and toneless.

Yeah, but I think stoneflecks voice could've been kinda creepy like a tonless hiss or something.

Pallum being a girl...I don't think that ruins anything, but it is rather inexplicable.
Wow! I should've read the book first before watching the show :P

Martin abandoning the sword...obviously a mistake by the writers.

When did he abandon the sword? When he left badrangs castle? Or at noonvale?

Tickle torture...I can't defend that. However, the whole torturing Skalrag bit never made much sense to me...why is Badrang torturing his own minion for information?

Yeah, Badrang is to kind to torture his own men. Actually I think the reason they did that was because they didnt wanna scare little children that might be watching.

I agree that Badrang looks like a wolf...nothing about him is right. His fur is gray when it should be brown, his tail is long and bushy where it should be short and fuzzy, and his ears are big and pointed when they should be small and round. Even the shape of his head is more canine than mustelid.

Yeah seriously, I watched the series before reading the books, and I actualyl thought badrang was a wolf xD. I was somewhat disapointed when he was a little weasel (I'm a wolf lover and fox.)

The birds in Mattimeo are too big, I definitely agree with that. I understand that they need to be a certain size to be menacing, but come on...Mangiz is bigger than *Constance?* If crows were that big, Thrugg and Dumble wouldn't have had a chance!

Well, I always imagined the birds big. But in real life they'd be puny compared to the size of a badger.

I didn't like how they pronounced Badrang...I'd always said it with the accent on the "drang."

I pronounce it this way "Ba-der-ong" :|

One criticism I haven't seen that bugged the heck out of me in all three seasons is how all the weasels, stoats and ferrets are drawn with buck teeth. Weasels aren't rodents, they're carnivores! All their front teeth are sharp! Someone on another board said Threeclaws looked like a hamster, and I'm inclined to agree...

Buck tooths annoyed me to mate! woo -high five- and I thought threeclaws was a ginnypig :)

Now, I've only seen the last episode of MtW, but from what I've seen it almost seems like they made Druwp a sympathetic character, instead of the despicible little pimple that he is. A mistake, if it's true...Druwp is one of the most hated characters in the whole series, and that should have been represented.

Druwp? I don't remember who that is -.-

Is it me, or did Martin and Amballa playfully throwing Crosstooth to his death as opposed to just stabbing him seem kind of sadistic ?

Yeah they had to do that for laughs. hey it made me all giggly inside -giggles-

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else, but I know I'm not the only one who's thinking it: Of all the female animals, why are badgers the only ones with breasts?

Ehem...yeah...well why were you looking there anyways!?!?!?

Lastly, a few minor complaints of mine are due to the animators not having enough knowledge of the Redwall universe: the occasional sightings of New World produce (corn, oranges, lemons) at the Redwall tables, and the moles being depicted as star-nosed moles, which I believe only live in the Americas. A similar mistake is in the American cover of Outcast, where Veil is depicted as a North American Black Footed Ferret. If he's a european ferret, he should just be whitish-grey all over, like the ones you see in the pet shops.

Yeah they kinda messed it up :)

Gorath the Flame
November 7th, 2007, 07:55 PM
a little weasel

I'm sorry, but this bothered to much not to post it.
STOATS ARE BIGGER THAN WEASELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There much better.:)

Silverfang
November 8th, 2007, 08:24 AM
lol yeah but Badrangs a weasel, and I thought he was a wolf. Wolves are a lot bigger then weasels ::lol:

Also another thing I just noticed (Thank you lord badger flame guy!)
Why are the weasels the same size as the stoats? I mean I've seen some rats in the Redwall movies that are BIGGER then stoats! Total size measurment mess up I'd say wot wot?

redwallfan91
November 8th, 2007, 09:12 AM
lol yeah but Badrangs a weasel, and I thought he was a wolf. Wolves are a lot bigger then weasels :

Also another thing I just noticed (Thank you lord badger flame guy!)
Why are the weasels the same size as the stoats? I mean I've seen some rats in the Redwall movies that are BIGGER then stoats! Total size measurment mess up I'd say wot wot?

Badrang's a stoat.

And weasels and stoats and ferrets (depending on what kind, breed etc) are relatively the same size. Obviously some weasels are smaller, but it depends on what kind of weasel. In Redwall they are all very close to the same size. The proportions are obviously unique to Redwall, not meant to be realistic. As I have said before, it's no stranger to adjust the proportions than to see the animals talking, cooking, fighting, and on and on.

Silverfang
November 8th, 2007, 09:59 AM
haha okay. actually Rats really cook in real life. :p why did you think they collected all that cheese?

Also did anyone notice in the Redwall final episode of season 1, cluny proclaims himself king of looneys castle instead of clunys castle :p I just wanted to say that.

Folgrimeo
November 8th, 2007, 10:30 AM
haha okay. actually Rats really cook in real life. :p why did you think they collected all that cheese?

Also did anyone notice in the Redwall final episode of season 1, cluny proclaims himself king of looneys castle instead of clunys castle :p I just wanted to say that.
Well, Remy from "Ratatouille" cooks. If he counts.

Never noticed Cluny saying Looney before, could have been a line not spoken well, or an actual mistake. As it turns out, there is an abbey in France called Cluny Abbey.

Silverfang
November 8th, 2007, 10:43 AM
Lol that could be brian jacques inspiration! Yeah if you watch the final episode he says "I declare this, LOONEYS CASTLE!! mauahhahah!"