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View Full Version : The Redwall Decade Showdown - 90s



LordTBT
March 19th, 2008, 12:07 AM
The winner of the 1980s survey was Mossflower.

Now for the 90s.

Folgrimeo
March 19th, 2008, 02:24 AM
Hard to choose. Loved Legend of Luke (technically I should have voted for it, happiest book of the lot), Salamandastron had some great moments. But Martin the Warrior had Martin at what I feel was his best and had the best ending in the series. Martin's first adventure has stayed with me more than any other Redwall book. Yeah, it's mostly because of his relationship with Rose. Or it could also be because the TV adaptation was pretty good. Just that it seemed to be the best book overall for this decade.
Even though Salamandastron was probably more interesting.

Ferahgo the Assassin
March 19th, 2008, 07:37 AM
Ack, this one is much harder. I often fluctuate between Salamandastron and Outcast of Redwall, depending on my mood. I think that Sunflash and Skarlath were better together than pretty much anything in Salamandastron, but Veil and Bryony ruin it. Overall, I'd have to say Salamandastron was probably my favorite, mostly just because I can't pick out any specific flaws, and I liked most of the plot threads and characters.

Martin the Warrior is probably going to win this one. It's definitely a good book, but there was just enough in it to annoy or disappoint me that it's not a favorite.

Folrig Streampaw
March 19th, 2008, 07:41 AM
As Folgrimeo has already stated, Martin the Warrior has the best ending of the series. It's got some really strong characters too, or at least some of my favourites: Pallum (in the book), Brome, Rose and Martin (of course, although I prefer him in Mossflower).

Although Mariel Of Redwall has two of my favourite characters in the entire series: Dandin and Durry Quill (obviously). I thought Gabool the Wild was a convincing villain, his slow descent into insanity and the whole business with Greypatch was quite interesting to see unfolding.

All the other books mentioned have good points about them as well, although for me, the best Redwall book written in the 1990s is:

Martin the Warrior. By a whisker.

Plus the TV adaptation was brilliant.

Fuzface
March 19th, 2008, 07:59 AM
I'll have to go with Mariel, though it's a hard choice. I love most of those, (and hate some of them), but Mariel wins, but just barely.

redwallfan91
March 19th, 2008, 09:09 AM
I went with Pearls of Lutra.

I don't necessarily have a favourite of all of those. I loved them all, but the riddles in Pearls, combined with revisiting some old friends made it easily one of the top. My favourite three were always the "trilogy" I think: Pearls of Lutra, The Long Patrol, Taggerung because I always loved it when the books sort of followed into each other. I loved seeing Arven grown up in The Long Patrol, and I enjoyed some other characters as well (though not Abbess Tansy) but of those, Pearls will always be my favourite. Pinknim was an especially memorable moment—completely unexpected, shocked me and stunned me for an hour when I read it first. Boy do I need to go back and read this one.

Poncho D
March 19th, 2008, 09:25 AM
Martin the Warrior. Second only to Mossflower in the whole series. It had the best ending, and the most obvious romance. (I'm a big romantic).

LordTBT
March 19th, 2008, 01:10 PM
Martin the Warrior is probably going to win this one. It's definitely a good book, but there was just enough in it to annoy or disappoint me that it's not a favorite.

I'm inclined to agree with your sentiments here. I personally feel the story of MtW is a bit overrated with fans. I mean, did you think

Martin was going to kill Badrang, and him and Rose would stroll off to Noonvale and live happily ever after? Or that they would go to Redwall Abbey?

It's just silly. If you're reading the books in publisher's order like your supposed to, from the introduction of the character an intelligent person can deduce what is going to happen.

Safronia_Cedarwood
March 19th, 2008, 02:02 PM
I just think Martin the Warrior is well written because of several reasons:


A Depressing Event (There's a serious lack of those in the books. I mean, compare any of the books to the Harry Potter ones)
The Plot Threads- BJ is skillful here in the establishment of alliances between different tribes/groups and how they work together
Funny Bits- This appears in all Redwall books, but I think the incident with Ballaw and his troupe performing in front of Badrang was hilarious
A Marty Stu Protagonist- Yup, I said it. If Martin's not close to a Stu, no one is. Just look at his record of battle, endurance, etc. Don't kill me for this- I'm still a fan. But don't we all have a primitive desire to see a character well-written and yet almost perfect?
Beautiful Friendships- See Martin and Rose. Enough said.


Of course, I like the other books too; it's just that MtW rules them out. If there's a second place choice I would've voted for Salamandastron.

Josiah the Warrior
March 19th, 2008, 02:36 PM
This was a really tough one; I almost picked MTW, but Pearls of Lutra was the first of the mystery-based, abbey-exploring types. The stories were all fun and engaging, and the characters were among my favorites.

Mad Maudie McBurl
March 19th, 2008, 02:41 PM
I know it doesn't say it but I went with Long Patrol. I accidentally pushed Pearls of Lutra.:o
its actually a three way tie between Long Patrol, Martin the Warrior, and Marlfox.
I liked them all but My favorite out of the three would have to be long Patrol.

Ferahgo the Assassin
March 19th, 2008, 02:47 PM
A Depressing Event (There's a serious lack of those in the books. I mean, compare any of the books to the Harry Potter ones)
I don't agree with that comparison. There has been a lack of powerful, emotive deaths in the more recent Redwall novels, but look at some of the most classic cases of losing a beloved character:

Skarlath, Urthstripe, Finnbarr, Luke the Warrior, Boar the Fighter, Bragoon and Saro, the Mask, Felldoh, and probably lots of others I'm forgetting.
There were a few deaths in the Harry Potter series that were about that powerful, but it rankled me considerably that a lot of my favorite characters were killed off willy-nilly, with incredibly vague and detached circumstances surrounding them. Jacques rarely does this with beloved characters; he tends to kill them in a powerful and often interesting way.

Lupin, my favorite character from the HP series second only to Sirius Black, was dead on the floor when Harry and co. entered the Great Hall. No explanation, no awesome battle, just randomly dead as a doornail. The protagonists didn't even offer much remorse at the time in light of everything else that was going on.
Sorry about the tangent, but people comparing the Redwall series to Harry Potter is one of my pet peeves. ;)

Safronia_Cedarwood
March 19th, 2008, 02:51 PM
Oops, sorry, they're kind of different, aren't they? I've grown out of Harry Potter, anyways.

It's dumb. (ducks to avoid spells from fellow HP fans)

Ferahgo the Assassin
March 19th, 2008, 02:57 PM
Oops, sorry, they're kind of different, aren't they? I've grown out of Harry Potter, anyways.

It's dumb. (ducks to avoid spells from fellow HP fans)
I think both series are among the top of the genre of children's fantasy literature, so don't peg me for a Harry Potter hater by any means. It always annoys me to see the Harry Potter series regarded as the pinnacle of literature, though, when I think it's just as flawed (if not more so) than other kids' books out there.

Back on topic: I'm surprised at the attention Pearls is getting here. It used to be my all-time favorite Redwall book, and I wasn't aware of many other people liking it as much. I'd just be echoing Redwallfan91 and Josiah in pointing out what I liked about it, but suffice it to say that I think it was a lot better than people tend to give it credit for.

And Romsca is still one of my top 5 favorite characters from the whole series.

LordTBT
March 19th, 2008, 03:07 PM
Back on topic: I'm surprised at the attention Pearls is getting here. It used to be my all-time favorite Redwall book, and I wasn't aware of many other people liking it as much. I'd just be echoing Redwallfan91 and Josiah in pointing out what I liked about it, but suffice it to say that I think it was a lot better than people tend to give it credit for.

And Romsca is still one of my top 5 favorite characters from the whole series.

The story in itself did many things which make it a unique book.

-It hearkens back to earlier days of Redwall by having a grown up Rollo, and referencing what became of Orlando the Axe. And we have Mattimeo's son as the Warrior.

-It introduced the concept of otter holts

-It brought a unique lead villain species (pine marten), who had an interesting ability

-Introduction of the extremely cool monitor lizards

-Introduction of seals

-As Josiah said, it was one of the, or possibly the first book to have an Abbey-exploring riddle mystery

-Another fun sea expedition

-Clecky & Gerul


Just to name a few things.

Ember Nickel
March 19th, 2008, 03:14 PM
I'm not voting yet, but I want to get some sort of semblance to my ideas. My favorite chronological era (Mariel-Salamandastron) was interestingly sandwiched around our overwhelming frontrunner. So maybe listing my thoughts on those 4 will help me pick?

Mariel-I'm biased as this is the first I read, but one of my favorites. Uh...not coming up with too much to say.
Salamandastron-good book. Unlike Loamhedge, manages to make the abundance of protagonists work.
Bellmaker-eh, is a sequel. The trick is that this is for the "best" book, which probably means I have to think literarily and stuff. (See frontrunner status of Martin the Warrior, above.)
Outcast-No one's voted for this yet? Veil's probably the most complex character in the series. Sunflash was cool, Skarlath,
(minor Outcast, more major Mossflower spoilers)
The tie-in with Mossflower was absolutely awesome.

No consensus yet, but probably Salamandastron or Outcast.

Goddess of Darkness
March 19th, 2008, 05:04 PM
Mariel-I'm biased as this is the first I read, but one of my favorites. Uh...not coming up with too much to say.

Wow, as long as I've known you on here, I didn't know that! Mariel was the first one I read too.

I gotta say, I liked Martin the Warrior, of course, but I think it's very overrated. I just thought it was kind of...I dunno, not terribly exciting compared to some of the others. Martin himself just wasn't very charismatic, and neither was Rose. Comparing this to Luke and his crew...there's just no contest for me. The middle book of Legend of Luke makes the whole thing probably my favorite book of the series. I know I've said this a million times, but it bares repeating.

Badrang3
March 19th, 2008, 05:29 PM
Martin the Warrior just edged out Salamandastron. MtW, I think, had one of the most memorable casts in the series, a good plot, dramatic events, grey characters in the Gawtrybe (but the whiners still won't credit BJ with being diverse. :rolleyes: ), action, romance, giants, true love... oh wait, that's The Princess Bride. Still, great book. And it had Badrang, who rocks.

Josiah the Warrior
March 19th, 2008, 06:19 PM
action, romance, giants, true love... oh wait, that's The Princess Bride.
I think you mean "twoo wuv." ;)

Abbot Peter
March 19th, 2008, 06:52 PM
my vote is between:

The Long Patrol- I thought this was great... it had action, suspense, some funny parts, and some sad parts. it was well-written and i couldnt put the book down! i loved the great battle at the end...

Pearls Of Lutra- another great book... well-written and great plot! lots of action. i liked when they made it to the Ruddaring. i thought it was sad though when Piknim died! that was sad.... i especially felt bad for Rollo. but overall a great book. Martin II and little Arven were just plain awesome..


so those are my two above

Ember Nickel
March 19th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Wow, as long as I've known you on here, I didn't know that!
...when it comes to ranking the books, does the first one you read rank higher in your opinion? The last time I ranked them (and that was a while back, probably years) my favorites were the chronological period from "Outcast" through "Salamandastron", which includes the first book I read, "Mariel". At this point I'd take it over any of the others in that time frame.See, my problem is that once I mentally say "these four are my favorite era", I'm able to parcel that off in my mind and don't have to think about it again. ;)

Goddess of Darkness
March 19th, 2008, 07:22 PM
*cough* Uh, yeah. I remember that now... ;)

Folgrimeo
March 19th, 2008, 11:51 PM
...when it comes to ranking the books, does the first one you read rank higher in your opinion? The last time I ranked them (and that was a while back, probably years) my favorites were the chronological period from "Outcast" through "Salamandastron", which includes the first book I read, "Mariel". At this point I'd take it over any of the others in that time frame.
Definitely has an influence, yes, because of the whole novelty of being introduced to the Redwall series with whatever book is chosen. And considering "Martin the Warrior" was the second book I read, that definitely had an influence: it's difficult for the other books to rank above it. But a few managed to do just that.


It's just silly. If you're reading the books in publisher's order like your supposed to, from the introduction of the character an intelligent person can deduce what is going to happen.
True. I didn't read "Mossflower" beforehand, so I didn't quite get the hint. But even though I knew Mossflower existed and Martin was in it, I was still on the edge of my seat. I temporarily forgot about Mossflower. And I think regardless which I read first, I would have had the same reaction to Martin during the ending to MtW. Especially when seeing the TV show.

Petunia
March 20th, 2008, 12:51 PM
I haven't voted yet because I can't decide between Legend of Luke and Pearls of Lutra.

I like the humor both, but especially Legend of Luke. I liked Beau and Gonff. I liked Vilu Daskar, too, but for a different reason. I liked when Luke told the crew not to call him captain and they said, "Aye aye, cap'n!" I also liked the song about ship's stew. I think Beau was my favorite, though.

I liked Clecky and Osbil in Pearls of Lutra because they were funny. I liked the riddles because they are one of the parts I like most about the series and that book had lots of them. I liked Romsca for everything. I liked Grath and Tansy and Romsca because they were strong girls. I even liked Viola sometimes.

I didn't like Ublaz as much as Vilu Daskar, but Legend of Luke didn't really have a riddle. Both books were a bit different from the rest of the series, so they aren't repetitive. I like both a lot.

Ember Nickel
March 20th, 2008, 02:59 PM
*cough* Uh, yeah. I remember that now... ;)It would be freaky if you remembered something I wrote two-plus years ago, ;) But the point I make is still relevant, so I felt like bringing it up.

Flinky_rules
March 27th, 2008, 04:02 PM
Aw, man! I didn't get here in time; the poll is closed! I would have voted for Salamandastron.