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Boar the Fighter
September 29th, 2003, 07:55 PM
I am the publisher of Servone. I am publishing Servone. Servone is being published by me. I can't think of any more ways to say it. Anyway, any questions about the release of Servone's book or questions about ordering said book should be here. That is, if you want them answered. Otherwise, if you ask Servone, he has to e-mail me and I have to e-mail him and then he has to post again...anyways, it's too long a process. So, just post your questions here and they will surely be answered.:)

Red Draco
September 30th, 2003, 05:41 AM
Well, this is a bit off topic (already), but how did you find Servone's book? ;)

Boar the Fighter
September 30th, 2003, 03:11 PM
I was on Slagar the Cruel's site, looking at his awards, and I clicked on the one Servone had given him (the Golden Servone Award). I saw the site, and there were all those novels, just sitting there. Something had to be done, so I did it.

Baby Rollo
September 30th, 2003, 04:31 PM
For some reason, I don't believe you.

Boar the Fighter
September 30th, 2003, 04:35 PM
Wait, what don't you believe? That I'm publishing Servone? Fine, just ask him. My name is Jonathan Ogden. He'll tell you. Ivan is the first production of my indy corporation. Still don't believe me? Your loss, as you have to believe that I'm actually publishing the book to order it, and as Servone has already taken it off the web, it would kinda be hard for you to read it otherwise.

Cale Yin
September 30th, 2003, 05:43 PM
You're publishing Servone's novel and that's cool. But you're an obnoxious kid and that's not cool. But you're publishing Servone's novel and that's cool. But you're an obnoxious kid and that's not cool.
How old are you? Where do you come from?
What's your MOTIVE??? WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!??! :eek:



;)

Boar the Fighter
September 30th, 2003, 06:10 PM
??
...
Um...as to how old I am, why don't you just check my profile?

My motive? Well, I guess it would be all of the excitement and backslapping Servone got after his novel got published. People being happy is cool, and when they're happy on my account that's even better. Plus, bringing a really good story to people is rewarding, and money is always nice ;)

Where do I come from? I'm not telling! If you plan to order the book, thoughm you'll have to send your check or money order to my address, so I guess you'll find out when you order.

And I'm not obnoxious. Calling me obnoxious was not cool. ;)

Lord Servone
September 30th, 2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Baby Rollo
For some reason, I don't believe you.

Did anybody else find this more than a little ironic xP.

Boar the Fighter
September 30th, 2003, 06:55 PM
Well, if by ironic you mean WRONG, then yes, yes I did find it ironic.

Pawflash
September 30th, 2003, 07:16 PM
*blinks* Your publisher is barely a teenager.

Hehe, and yes, it was rather ironic that baby rollo should say something like that. Considering he's not really a baby bankvole, despite what he claims.

Boar the Fighter
September 30th, 2003, 07:17 PM
*blinks back* is there a problem with that?

Rillflag27
September 30th, 2003, 07:23 PM
Ogden....I've heard that from somewhere.

Boar the Fighter
September 30th, 2003, 07:31 PM
Yeah, well, I guess it wasn't me. Anyways, I may not be that old, but what does it matter? If I can produce a good product, what's wrong with my being 14? Agism is really annoying to me. That's why I maybe jumped down Martin the Warrior's throat when I didn't mean to on one thread. Agist remarks make me mad. Anyways, I know it may seem odd, but just don't pass judgment until you get your product. Is that too much to ask?

Slagar the Cruel
September 30th, 2003, 07:55 PM
Don't worry, guys, I'm almost positive that Jon's legitimate... he's been pretty open with me on the project's details (why were we discussing the project's details? MAYBE YOU'LL FIND OUT SOME DAY! It's mysteeerious! *wiggles fingers*), and he's even shown me how he plans to do the printing. I know he's a little young to be publishing, and it did give me a bit of a shock when he told me he was 14... but so what? He's an enterprising young lad. Stranger beings have walked this Earth. ;)

And just when was he obnoxious? (Er, not counting that Silmarillion discussion, where he got a little too hot under the collar with Martin. CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IS ALL YOU'VE GOT!)

Boar the Fighter
September 30th, 2003, 08:00 PM
Thanks, Slagar, you're a pal (though I'm not really sure if stranger beings really HAVE walked the earth...). Anyway, yeah, I did get angry with Martin. It wasn't being obnoxious. I still think I was justified. Again, I'm being judged based on my age and lumped in with the majority. I don't like that. And it's happening again! I'll try to keep my cool this time though, in real life they only listen to you when you lose it;)

Baby Rollo
September 30th, 2003, 08:55 PM
When you said Indy publishing Servone, I didn't think you meant this Indy. If Boar's really the publisher, the kid's quite an entrepeneur--I'll give him that--but I'd rather trust someone with experience and credentials. Doesn't seem like you or him will make much of a profit if it's just us buying your book. Unless you advertise in websites, magazines, etc. seems like you guys will make a few grand at the most. But it's the connections you'll make that counts.


Agism is really annoying to me

Can't blame them for criticizing your age. Teenagers are usually arrogant little buggers who talk too much. And people are naturally lumped together. If you want to break the stereotype of arrogant teenagers, then you're just another stereotypical teenager trying not to be a stereotype but turns out to be a stereotype in the end since everyone is trying not to be the stereotype. It's all a vicious cycle of stereotypes

Lord Servone
September 30th, 2003, 11:05 PM
You guys aren't the only ones we're marketing to (sorry to make you all feel less special ;))...Mr.Ogden was the one to convince me there would be a potential market in the area where he lives...
I'm mainly promoting to certain parts of the ROC (IE here and the RFF) because those are the best places I know of that may be interested in the product. Also, you guys on the net are getting all the good deals ($1 off by pre-ordering and all that jazz...).

And those of you that have doubts about Jon...I had a loooooooooooong exchange with him before making up my mind. I'm almost dead certain he's legit. He's no matchstick man. And though I may not be sure exactly how Jon's going to produce a hardcover book, I'm sure he'll do it.....and if he IS a matchstick man(which he ain't), you can be assured that I will personally hunt him down to the ends of the earth and will have my vengeance! ;)

And, for the record, any money made on "Ivan" WOULD be a profit to me....Muah ha ha ha ha ha >xD

To sum things up, trust Jon Ogden....and buy my book while you're at it ;).

Boar the Fighter
October 1st, 2003, 05:35 AM
Can't blame them for criticizing your age. Teenagers are usually arrogant little buggers who talk too much. And people are naturally lumped together. If you want to break the stereotype of arrogant teenagers, then you're just another stereotypical teenager trying not to be a stereotype but turns out to be a stereotype in the end since everyone is trying not to be the stereotype. It's all a vicious cycle of stereotypes [/B]

That's just a fallacy. You could use the exact same logic to justify racism or anti-semitism or sexism or anything else. Just because I'm a teenager not happy with the fact that everyone assumes that I can't understand anything and that I'm just arrogant doesn't mean I'm arrogant. I'm not "trying not to be the stereotype." I'm trying to be an intelligent human being who, in this case because I find it fun and think I can make a decent profit (I'd be happy with a few grand and the name for myself, thank you very much, though I think I'll get more), publishes books. Yes, I am quite an entrepreneur. Thank you.

Cale Yin
October 1st, 2003, 06:23 PM
You are obnoxious. I'm not doubting your credibility or your ability, and I'm not lumping you in the age categories, and I'm not just saying you're obnoxious because I'm jealous you can publish books because I will never write anything worth publishing or making a book. I could not care less. You walk on here like you expect everyone to treat you like you're 10 just so you can justify yelling and being obnoxious, or just so you can have an excuse to be obnoxious (and a lil immature). I just don't like the way you talk. It has nothing to do with your age or your dealings with Servone and Slagar. You seem like you'd be one of those guys who, when you meet him in person, would talk a little too loud and ALWAYS think he's right. That just really gets on my nerves. Martin's letting you use his board for pete's sake, so why don't you just follow his rules? They really, really aren't hard to follow. It's not like you're accidentally blurting out a word; there IS a delete button. If you don't want people to treat you like a kid then don't act like one. It's not a free country. :p

And more power to ya for making Servone's book. *thumbs up* I just don't have $25 to spare right this second; will there be a paperback version? I'd have to work for 4 hours to earn the cost of a hardcover. If there won't be one then I'll buy hardcover eventually. I ain't made of monie. :p

Also: he will have my revenge too. :p



P.S. Your 'location' endorses alcohol. :p

Boar the Fighter
October 1st, 2003, 07:17 PM
I honestly couldn't care less if you think I'm obnoxious. Quite frankly, I don't care what you think at all...if you're just going to tell me that I'm the kind of guy that would get on your nerves, why should I listen to you? You seem like the kind of guy who thinks he way more mature than everyone else and too good for the world. The type of person that when you tell them something really exciting gives you a fake smile, a thumbs-up, and a sarcastic "GREAT!" That really gets on my nerves.

There might be a paperback edition; I don't know if I should make one because it wouldn't be all that much less expensive (printing would still cost $12/book), and it would be so much less pretty. My hardcovers aren't going to be quite the same as normal hardcovers, they'll be different, you'll see...I think you'll like mine better than the average book you get.

P.S. Your location endorses dogs :p

PiarasJ
October 1st, 2003, 08:56 PM
Boar, I think you'll find that being 14 on an enterprise like this does have it's advantages. For instance, there are a lot of people who will be glad to offer you help, some might even offer you advice and mentoring. If you can get yourself established young, then you're that much better equipped for adulthood. Many businesspeople will recognise that.

The Red Badger
October 1st, 2003, 09:57 PM
Everybody cool it and play nice.

Boar the Fighter
October 2nd, 2003, 05:16 AM
Yes, why doesn't everybody cool it and play it nice? I thought personal attacks were forbidden on this board. Anyway, the reason I created this thread was because it seemed a lot of you guys were asking Servone questions that he couldn't answer. Anyways, this is just a place where you can post those, and also anything else that you'd like to say concerning my publishing buisness (e.g. something like PirasJ's comment). This is not the place to call me obnoxious. Start a thread called "Boar the Fighter is obnoxious" or sometine.

Pawflash
October 2nd, 2003, 05:50 PM
*blinks back* is there a problem with that?
Nay, just rather shocking.

*Scratches his eyes out* Mayhaps publishing is more your calling than publicity, Boar. Besides, a "Boar the Fighter is obnoxious" thread would get smitten from the board. I once tried with an Anti-Ambrose club :P

Boar the Fighter
October 2nd, 2003, 06:44 PM
Haha, you really tried an anti-Ambrose thread? Really? No kidding? That's funny I mean *ahem* awful! You shouldn't have done that *cough*;) Um, I guess you could say publishing is more my calling than publicity. I'd like to think I'm a good publiscist too, as that's the only was I'm gonna sell any books. How many of you would actually buy books? It will cost $23.99 plus shipping for those of you not living in my area. If you preorder or order within a week of release, you will also receive a free gift! A simple "yes," or "I would," will do.

Airemia
October 2nd, 2003, 08:30 PM
I don't know Boar, if you really want to be taken seriously by adults, then you might do better to not rant about ageism, and work on proving through your actions that you're more intelligent than the average teen. You'll probably get more respect that way.

As far as the book goes: I'm also curious about how you're actually going to be producing it?

Glenner
October 2nd, 2003, 08:34 PM
That is a good question. I'm rather interested in publishing myself (not that I'd want to start one now) and would like to know how you go about starting your own independent publishing system.

Lord Servone
October 2nd, 2003, 09:14 PM
I think that might be a good idea (tell them how you're going to produce the book)...I'm kind of curious myself ;)

Cale Yin
October 2nd, 2003, 09:37 PM
You seem like the kind of guy

Girl. :rolleyes:


P.S. Your location endorses dogs :p

:D


The type of person that when you tell them something really exciting gives you a fake smile, a thumbs-up, and a sarcastic "GREAT!"

I actually do that. :p

I apologize for attacking you in public, I should have emailed you instead. ;)


How exactly do you get the money? You're not 18-- no credit card, no PAL... I'm not mailing cash, too risky.

Boar the Fighter
October 3rd, 2003, 05:35 AM
How exactly do you get the money? You're not 18-- no credit card, no PAL... I'm not mailing cash, too risky.

Maybe you could try mailing a check...that seems the only alternative.

As to how I'll produce the book, well that's easy enough to tell. There is a wonderful website, docucopies.com, that does printing for extremely cheap. Once I finish formatting and editing the book, I'll send it away via e-mail to them. They'll print it and send it back to me. I'll go to Staples, by me some 1 1/2 inch binders, (this is ruining the suprise of the new type of book btw) print off covers (front and back), make the spine, put it all in the binder and voila! What you have is book that cannot be damaged except by concsious effort. Unlike your normal hardcover, you can't rip or bend up the jacket while opening it to read. The binding will never fight against you; you'll always be able to open to exactly the page you want and have it stay there. No more dog-earring pages or leaving the book upside-down when you go to do something else; this book will stay open right-side-up, yet it will close when you want it to close. I think it's a pretty good idea meself, I'm rather proud. :D What do you all think?

Mackinsie
October 3rd, 2003, 10:23 AM
I want to make sure I understand this completely... You are going to print the book, put it in a loose-leaf binder, add cover art and sell it for $20+. Do I have that right?


How many of you would actually buy books? It will cost $23.99 plus shipping for those of you not living in my area. If you preorder or order within a week of release, you will also receive a free gift! A simple "yes," or "I would," will do.
It would probably be easier for people to commit if they knew what area of the country you live in. They could then go to USPS.com (http://www.usps.com) or UPS.com (http://www.ups.com) to figure out the shipping charges.


How exactly do you get the money? You're not 18-- no credit card, no PAL... I'm not mailing cash, too risky.
Sending money through the mail is always a risky proposition. Even if you send the mail certified/return-receipt-requested, the addressee could always lie and say that there wasn't any money in the envelope. I prefer to do business through checks and money orders. That way, you always have proof.

Lord Servone
October 3rd, 2003, 01:01 PM
Do you mean they'll be able to snap the binder open and take pages out if they want to? Or is this a different type of binder?

Boar the Fighter
October 3rd, 2003, 01:18 PM
The binder will be shut permanently so that no one can take out pages (if they could, then we'd have a problem). It will have a spine-label thing-bat (not quite sure what you'd call that...). I've printed books like this before (school and such, I wrote a miniature book [50-60 pages] for a school report and bound it in this fashion), and they've turned out quite nicely. I've been looking into "velo" binding for a possible paperback edition, but I don't know how expensive it is, and I wouldn't be able to give it a spine. By printing and binding in a three-ring binder, I getting a much higher quality book than you can buy at the stores. It will last much longer than your average hardcover, and it won't be damaged unless you actually try to damage it. Because I'm not a major publishing house, printing is fairly expensive, and binding in a binder is expensive ($5/binder, way more than any publishing house spent on their front and back covers, jacket, and spine put together), so $24.99 (minus $1 if you preorder, and don't forget your free gift) is as cheap as I could possibly sell it for. It's still $5 less expensive than a normal hardcover though, so I think I've managed a pretty good system. If you think a three-ring binder is unproffesional, I can't offer you much help. It is the best option available to me (and even if I COULD bind things in the normal way, the only reason I would would be so that people who felt that a "normal" book was more professional). So, in short, I think you should buy the book. You'll get your money's worth.

Keyla
October 3rd, 2003, 02:13 PM
Servone, I think it's great that you've got the chance of having your book published. It is a thing many of us dream of. I was really happy for you when I read it. However, (Boar please don't think I'm trying to undermine you or say that this is a con), is there any proof that this is no matchstick deal?
Boar, on the internet there is virtually no risk to any of us making friends on the web. All we put in is our involvement and that's it, nothing very lucrative for any con artist, but when people start having to send money in the post I worry. Not because I reckon you're hear to trick us, but because if this kind of thing goes on it leaves users of this forum and others in the ROC, some of whom are probably quite young, open to being tricked.
I really admire the initiative you have taken here, but my heart misgives. I am prepared to trust people on the internet with my opinions, thoughts, fears and those things that mean more to me than capital as no theif would want to steal them, but money is different. It is not that I don't trust you, but that the practise of sending people whom one knows only via the internet money in exchange for something strikes me as being a mistake.
I'm sorry Servone and Boar. I repeat: this is nothing against you personally.

Boar the Fighter
October 3rd, 2003, 02:46 PM
Obviously Keyla I can't prove that I'm not a con-man. If we could all prove our real identities to each other, then everything would be a whole lot easier. I did a bit of a double-take at the idea of selling books over the internet (I'm only fourteen, and giving away where I live to people I don't know is dangerous; I'm not the only one who's indentity is in question here, you guys could be lying about who you are as well), but when I saw the enthusiasm in the "Servone: Published Author?" thread, it seemed that not only did he already have a fanbase, but he had an extremely enthusiastic fanbase of incredibly nice people. I don't blame you for not buying it, I wouldn't either. But it seemed that there WERE people who were interested, and it wouldn't be fair to deny them the ability to buy a book they wanted. All I'm doing is giving people the option to buy. Obviously I can't send them the book first, that's just plain stupid. So whatever. Don't buy it if you don't want...it probably would be kinda complicated for me to get you a copy anyway (if you're who you say you are) because according to your profile you live in England, all the way accross the Atlantic Ocean.

Mackinsie
October 3rd, 2003, 03:25 PM
It wouldn't be that hard to send something to Keyla, you would just have to pay a little more postage. :)

I'm only fourteen, and giving away where I live to people I don't know is dangerous
That is very sound advice to follow. However, by not even narrowing down your location to an area of the country, you are appearing suspect. And that is the sort of thing that makes people a little leary of sending money.

I'm not the only one who's indentity is in question here, you guys could be lying about who you are as well
That is one of the main problems with the internet. You don't know who I am. I don't know who you are. However, the burden of proof rests with you so long as you expect people to send you money for something that hasn't been fully described (not even, it would appear, to the author).

even if I COULD bind things in the normal wayPlaces like Kinko's can do that sort of thing for you, if you are interested.

I wish you and Sevone the best of luck with your publishing venture. :)

Boar the Fighter
October 3rd, 2003, 06:31 PM
A LOT more postage actually. I live on the east coast. As to Kinko's, I think I explained before that I would have to pay way too much per book to charge a realistic amount for the book. Uh...yeah. That is all.

Baby Rollo
October 3rd, 2003, 10:31 PM
The binder will be shut permanently so that no one can take out pages (if they could, then we'd have a problem). It will have a spine-label thing-bat (not quite sure what you'd call that...). I've printed books like this before (school and such, I wrote a miniature book [50-60 pages] for a school report and bound it in this fashion), and they've turned out quite nicely. I've been looking into "velo" binding for a possible paperback edition, but I don't know how expensive it is, and I wouldn't be able to give it a spine. By printing and binding in a three-ring binder, I getting a much higher quality book than you can buy at the stores. It will last much longer than your average hardcover, and it won't be damaged unless you actually try to damage it. Because I'm not a major publishing house, printing is fairly expensive, and binding in a binder is expensive ($5/binder, way more than any publishing house spent on their front and back covers, jacket, and spine put together), so $24.99 (minus $1 if you preorder, and don't forget your free gift) is as cheap as I could possibly sell it for. It's still $5 less expensive than a normal hardcover though, so I think I've managed a pretty good system. If you think a three-ring binder is unproffesional, I can't offer you much help. It is the best option available to me (and even if I COULD bind things in the normal way, the only reason I would would be so that people who felt that a "normal" book was more professional). So, in short, I think you should buy the book. You'll get your money's worth.

Hold on there cowboy. We pay for something that has not been released yet and is held together by a 3 ring binder?


I don't blame you for not buying it, I wouldn't either.

And are you also saying you have no confidence in your own product?

According to my new calculations. You'd actually be losing money with this system of yours.

Boar the Fighter
October 4th, 2003, 05:14 AM
Not no confidence in my own product Rollo, that'd be stupid. I'd have no confidence in me. I wouldn't trust me enough to buy it. I wasn't planning on marketing over the Internet. The plan was to sell to people in my home area, who I know will buy it. You guys are just a bonus. If you buy it, great. If you don't, great. I make more money if you do, less money if you don't, but I'll still make money if I sell two or more copies than I print. Btw, what are your new calculations? My calculations say that I'll make money based on what people at my school say. Plus, I've told them what the free gift is. It's excellent.

Lord Servone
October 4th, 2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Baby Rollo
Hold on there cowboy. We pay for something that has not been released yet....

That's why its called PRE-ordering, my boy. Pre is the key word. When the product's finished, it won't be pre-ordering anymore, it'll just be ordering...

I'd also say this...I trust Jon Ogden enough to say that if he DOES con anybody here, I will reimburse you....now, since I'm a college student and I don't have that much money, it may take me some time to get the money back to you, but I will. That's how much confidence I have in him... ;) With that said, I hope you know how much I don't think Jon's a conman. *thumbs up*

Boar the Fighter
October 4th, 2003, 02:08 PM
I am neither a conman nor a cowboy. I will con no one, and I won't cow anyone either. All I'll do is talk to you and sell you a book and/or a secret thing that will no longer be free one week after the book's release. It won't even be free by itself before one week after that book's release. That is all I will do. No conning or cowing. If you want to see people get conned, go watch "Matchstick Men." If you want to see someone get cowed...well I can't help you much there. Sorry.

Slagar the Cruel
October 4th, 2003, 03:29 PM
Hint: the secret thing is a bomb.


...


Er, what? Oh, scratch that! I meant that the secret thing is THE bomb. Yeah. What'd I say? *shifts eyes about*

The Red Badger
October 6th, 2003, 12:37 PM
There are a few points I wish to raise for Servone's and the potential consumer's benefit, then I'm out of here.

Professional publishers don't use three-ring-binders for a reason. They're flawed. The cover itself might stand up better than a dust jacket would, but what matters. . . the pages themselves. . . would be a mess. See, the sheer weight of the paper combined with the added stress of every turn of the page slowly but surely wears away the hole the ring goes through. Inevitably, whether it takes years, months, weeks, or days, the hole will wear through completely and the page will fall out. That's why only text books, manuals, and resource materials use three-ring-binders. You'd wear away the top hole simply by putting the book on the shelf and leaving it. That's not getting your money's worth. Docucopies itself will tape/spiral bind the material at less than $5 a copy, judging by the figures I ran through it. That would be much better.

Two, nice promo as it is, $24.99 is not "$5 less expensive than a normal hardcover" as Boar claims. Brand new release, barely a week old, Loamhedge had a cover price of $23.99. So, you are essentially being asked to pay the same (or more) for a binding not as durable.

Third, this is not a simple friend/acquantance deal over the internet, this is (supposed to be) a business. No reputable business will refuse to tell you where they are located or refuse to give you contact information. No reputable business will ask you to send cash through the post office as that leaves you with no proof that you paid (and is just asking for trouble). No reputable business refuses to even give you their name.

If Boar's worried about his personal security, fine. But, then he has no business running a business (pardon the pun). You either do or you don't, you don't get to go halfway.

Servone, I'll gladly buy your book the second it's in a Barnes & Noble or another bookstore. I wish you nothing but the best. But, something about all of this doesn't sound quite right to me, so I seriously recommend you not commit to anything until you meet Boar in person and work out a contract or something. Get a literary agent, get legal advice, protect yourself. Ivan is your hard work, it's yours, make sure it (and you) are protected. It's too important not to.

And at least consider the fact that you could do everything Boar plans to do yourself while maintaining direct control over your work. I'm far more likely to do business with you than I am with him.

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 01:12 PM
Well, Reds, that was pretty hurtful. Maybe Loamhedge cost $23.99 for you, I had to pay $30.00. That's what most hardcovers cost these days.

Two, I think Servone has a lot more of compass for judging me than you do. I wasn't intending on you guys as customers. You don't want to do buisness with me? Up yours. I know that almost every person in my grade will be buying one, as will a lot of the other people in my school. And, oh, have you ever heard of REINFORCERS? Apparently not. Plus, stuff doesn't just "wear away" unless it's treated sans care. If you treat you stuff that way, then fine, but your hardcover books won't be in much better shape. I treat my things well, and that's why my books (the ones I own, not the ones that I'm going to publish) are in good shape. Yours must be in ????PY shape.

So, in conclusion, don't buy one. When I made the decision that this was going to be profitable, I didn't have you in mind. In fact, I'm not marketing to you at all. Go soak your head.

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 01:26 PM
Oh, and another thing. If this was a scam, why did I contact Servone and ask for his permission? Here's the deal. This was a bad idea. I will not take orders over the internet. I will simply sell them where I live. That way, I don't endanger myself. Sorry guys, but this just isn't plausible. You can all thank Reds.

By the way, if docucopies were to bind the thing, they'd have to have the cover on, which will be in color, as well as the last page, which will be in color as well. They multiply their price by ten if the order is color, forcing me to charge over $120 per book. So no, that wouldn't be a better option. Believe it or not Reds, I've given this some thought.

Airemia
October 6th, 2003, 01:31 PM
Boar, man, calm down. Reds wasn't insulting you, he was trying to help you guys out. It's true - think about it, would you want to do business with someone who you don't know, won't tell you their location, and has no experience or reputation? I'm sure you're an honest, upstanding gentleman, but who knows? This is the internet. I don't know if you're a guy who's really interested in starting up a business and helping out Servone, or if you're a con man. I could sit here and tell you that I'm the Queen of England's nefew's cousin, but I've got no proof to back it up.

Reds wasn't trying to insult you. In fact, I think you're the one doing the most insulting here. Why don't you just give us some solid information? I think we'd all be more eager to buy your product, if that was the case.

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 01:36 PM
Because, simply put, you can't trust people you meet on the internet. I won't give out personal information. My parents wont let me, a, and b, even if they would, I don't think I would. It's just not smart.

Not insulting me, huh? What was "I'd be way more likely to do buisness with [Servone] than Boar," then, huh? Uncalled for, that's what. And insulting too. Seriously though, I'm not doing orders over the internet, at least until I get my own site, which is in the distant future. I'll do just fine only selling to people offline, and then you guys won't have to worry about how unprofessional my product is and me being a scam! How's that for killing two birds with one stone?

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 01:43 PM
Also note that he said he wanted to raise a few points for "Servone's and the potential consumer's benefit." He was trying to undermine and insult me. This from the guy that was all about everybody "playing it cool and being nice." Since there are no personal attacks on this board, I'll let you draw your own conclusions....

Airemia
October 6th, 2003, 01:49 PM
Boar, I think you're TOTALLY misunderstanding Reds here. What he said he was doing was exactly what he was doing: raising a few points for our benefits. I fail to see how he was undermining and insulting you. If you mean questioning you in any way, then yeah, he was. What do you expect? Everyone to just believe everything you're saying? What you said about not being able to trust people on the internet is exactly right. That's why we want ALL the information before we trust someone with our money, and that's what Reds was trying to do. No personal insult intended.

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 01:53 PM
You ignored the quote I gave you where he said "I'd be way more likely to do buisness with [Servone] than with Boar." Of course, this is because he doesn't like me. W/e, I don't care. Like I said, I'm not selling stuff over the internet. So it doesn't really matter.

Cale Yin
October 6th, 2003, 03:56 PM
Grow up a spootle.
Then, hear me say that :redsy is probably bushels older and smarter and more experienced than you, and he's a trusted moderator of this board. He's been around for a while. He said he's more likely to do business Servone than you because we've known Servone for... what, two years? And we've known you for like two weeks. AND, Servone's older than you. And he's bushels and bushels nicer than you.
Up my what? :rolleyes: ANYWAY. Sure.

...I'd set the book on its side, flat. I do that with my regular books because I have a book box, not a bookshelf. Is that badspoot?

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 04:27 PM
No, that's not a badspoot. I'm weird about my books. I try to keep the cover from popping off by setting them on their front cover when I'm less than halfway through the book, and on the back cover when I'm more than halfway through the book.

And Reds isn't that wise if he wants a fourteen-year-old to give out personal information BEFORE anyone needs to know. If people would order, then obviously I'd have to give them my address. However, that's no longer an option, so it doesn't really matter.

Nice job judging people you don't even know well on the internet (you've only known me two weeks, you said it yourself), let alone well in real life. MAYBE if you guys stopped asking for my personal info BEFORE you ordered....

Yes, up your THAT. Like I said, I'm not marketing to you, and I never planned to. So if you want me to give out personal information before you order, then you just won't get a book. I was never planning to sell these things over the internet and I won't. You need to get a wee bit less naive and realize that just because you guys don't appear to have any motive to hurt me doesn't mean that I still shouldn't be suspicious. It's not "growing up" to give out information about your whereabouts when you're fourteen, it's called "being dead."

Cale Yin
October 6th, 2003, 05:02 PM
I know for a fact that(well, I 'd need to see the birth certificates for it to be a FACT, but...): Servone is 18 and you are 14. Servone is nice and you are... not. I said "PROBABLY" and you assumed I was judging. What are you talking about? I'm going to sleep. I don't know what I'm talking about either. Too tired. http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/contrib/unknown/face32.gif


lol, this one's funny --> http://smilies.crowd9.com/ups/DeNiro/sleepy.gif

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 05:06 PM
Yeah, I am 14. Stop telling me to grow up AND saying that you don't trust me. Make up your mind already. Either I'm fourteen and obnoxious or I'm a con-man playing you. I'm not both. How many fourteen-year-old conmen have YOU ever run into?

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 05:19 PM
Oh, I was referring to your judgment of Servone being nicer than me, not your judgment that Reds was smarter than me. I'm not one to say I'm smarter than the next guy...I mean, it's not like Reds says "OMG U LOOSER, U SUX0RS!" or anything like that. He's a smart guy. He's certainly a wise-guy, and he's probably a lot older than me (that's not necessarily a good thing). What does it matter? You just go take your sleep. Preferrably, don't wake up! ;)

Cale Yin
October 6th, 2003, 06:01 PM
I actually said that I didn't think you were gonna con anyonbody. Definitely immature-obnoxious. (This is getting old. This is old. This has been old.)

*goes back to sleep*

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 06:25 PM
You said that? Really? How supportive.

Airemia
October 6th, 2003, 06:44 PM
Boar, if you're not going to sell it to us, what are you still doing here? :rolleyes:

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 07:16 PM
I'm still here because I'm on this forum for other reasons than just selling books (if you'll notice, I've played the OR game quite a bit...), and people like you keep putting up posts like these. Plus, I've talked it over with Servone (who was extremely disappointed and really wanted me to sell books over the internet), and my dad, who's a lawyer, and I think I may be able to sell them...possibly...sometime in the future. I still have to figure out a safe way for you guys to contact me without giving out my personal information...a Post-Office Box is is what my dad suggested...anyways, I may yet sell books over the internet. Plus, no money is needed with a preorder...all that does is reserve you a copy of the book so that when you do choose to pay for it, you get it no questions asked.

Martin the Warrior
October 6th, 2003, 07:27 PM
Boar, you're out of line.

Reds did not even address you once in his post. The quote you claim is an insult is not-- he said he trusts Servone more than he trusts you. You're free to take offense at the statement, but that does not make it a personal attack.

Frankly, I'm tired of coming on here to see you've picked a fight with someone and have broken yet another rule. You get one more chance after this and that's it. Either abide by the rules or find a forum that's more up your alley.

Servone, good luck. I hope you'll keep us updated with regards to your book. However, I think you need to take a close look at the points raised in this discussion.

Slagar the Cruel
October 6th, 2003, 07:46 PM
Boar, I'm sorry, but our business is at an end. I actually made that deal with you under the pretenses that you and Servone were aiming for a much larger-scale release, though I was willing to stick by my word even after I found out otherwise. But now that you're limiting your sale of "Ivan" completely to where you live? I'm sorry, it's just not worth the effort. I don't know, the idea of making what we talked about intrigued me enough that I might still make it, but I'm definately not going to do it exclusively for people you know. And quite honestly, I'm not sure I want to be doing business with someone who, rather unprovokedly, told us all "up yours".

Perhaps Servone should reconsider all of this. This whole publishing ordeal is beginning to look like a bleak fate for Ivan. It deserves better than this.

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 07:46 PM
Whatever Martin, I didn't pick any fight, and I think you realize it. This fight was picked with me. You ask Servone to take a serious look at the point brought up in the discussion. What is your objective? What is Reds' objective? Do you think I am a con-man? Because if you don't, you're sure acting like you do. I think that what you're doing is sitting back and taking potshots (saying that he trusts Servone more than he trusts me [which, by the way, is a personal attack]), because you want to make yourselves feel good. What's the point? You must not trust me. As I said to Servone, it appears you guys want to have your cake and eat it too with me. You want to tell me that I'm an immature fourteen-year-old AND that I'm somehow conning Servone. I don't know how many times this has to be shown before you guys realize...I AM NOT CONNING ANYONE! I have asked Servone for no money. I told him about my plans (why bother if I'm gonna con him?). The only reason I'm offering to sell online is because he wants me to. There is absolutely no reason for you guys to believe that there is something "not quite right" with me. I am completely right (in the sense that I'm not a con-man). You don't have to like my style. You can think I'm obnoxious, immature, even a complete and total jerk. You might be right. But I am not a liar. My intentions are good and honorable. I want nothing but to sell you a book (an excellent one in my opinion). Your suggestions to the contrary are what is out of line, not me. So I say, once again, that I take it personally that you "older and wiser" bunch keep suggesting to Servone that I'm trying to trick him. I think you'd feel the same way if you were in my place. Think about it...you're fourteen, you go out on a limb and try to do something that not many fourteen-year-olds would even think about, let alone do. I share this fact with others, who were really excited when Servone told them that he was getting published. Instead of how cool they find it, they do nothing but take potshots at me ("You are obnoxious" -Cale Yin) and question my legitimacy ("I urge you to look at the issues raised in this discussion" -Martin). That's been hurtful to me, and it has made me defensive. I don't know...do YOU think I'm out of line?

Baby Rollo
October 6th, 2003, 08:03 PM
Instead of how cool they find it, they do nothing but take potshots at me

Well, I found it not cool when the publisher turned out to be a 14 year old kid who made books out of binders and doesn't give any location information to people outside his area who are actually interested in buying the book.

And their "potshots" as you call them are pretty legitimate. Every other post you seem to rant on and on about how you're 14 years old and how you think all these "old" people are bashing you because of your age. Well, you're the one who seems to be the agist if you think about it. You're the one who seems to have a thing against people older than you.


I'm still here because I'm on this forum for other reasons than just selling books (if you'll notice, I've played the OR game quite a bit...

The OR game, huh. Well, the OR game doesn't seem like a very good reason to be on this forum.


How many fourteen-year-old conmen have YOU ever run into?

Quite a bit actually


Nice job judging people you don't even know well on the internet (you've only known me two weeks, you said it yourself), let alone well in real life

You seem to have the same attitude about us


Plus, I've talked it over with Servone (who was extremely disappointed and really wanted me to sell books over the internet), and my dad, who's a lawyer, and I think I may be able to sell them...possibly...sometime in the future

I think Servone wants the book to be sold to people who actually know about Ivan instead of people in your area who most probably never heard of him or his story.

Airemia
October 6th, 2003, 08:08 PM
The only personal insult I've seen in this post was Caleyin telling you that you were obnoxious. The rest were nothing close to being personal attacks.

I think you need to learn the difference between a personal attack and someone stating their opinion.

Let's use me and my friends as an example here, since I can't think of anything better. Let's say that Eva has known Rachel for three years, and Eva has known me for three weeks. If Eva told me that she trusted Rachel more than she trusted me, I'd have no problem with it. Obviously that's how it's going to be. Trust takes *time* to build. It's not an insult, it's a fact.

And I'm sorry to break it to you, Boar, but age is significant. Most fourteen-year-olds have very little or no experience in such things. They ARE more immature, they AREN'T as trustworthy as someone who's been in the business for forty years.

You've already proved that you're not immune to the immaturity, arrogance, and know-it-all attitude that many teenagers seem to have. Take that as a personal attack if you like, but it's true. You think saying things like 'up yours', and 'w/e', and basically disrespecting everyone is going to get people to not make judgements about you based on your age?

Anyway, I have food poisoning, and I'm going to bed or something. Wake me up when this is over. :p

Baby Rollo
October 6th, 2003, 08:14 PM
Sounds like it's going to be over pretty soon and unfortunately, I don't think it will be a happy ending. (hint, hint)

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 08:20 PM
If Cale Yin's OPINION is that I'm obnoxious, then what makes it any more of a personal attack than Reds' OPINION that I'm not trustworthy?

What I'm desregarding with "w/e" is people saying that I'm not trustworthy. What am I supposed to say? "Oh, I'm fourteen, therefore I'm not trustworthy. I will except this fact and attempt to work around it. I am inferior to you because of your greater age. I bow down to you." I AM trustworthy, so when . And EVERYONE acts immature at times. When a person is attacked by a group of people, they have no choice but to become defensive. You guys put me on the defensive.

Everyone is inexperienced at some point. Bill Gates was inexperienced when he first opened Microsoft. Heck, in sports, look at any great player. They were all young and inexperienced at times. Bottom line: I'm taking a risk. I'm going out on a limb. I should have realized that you guys would great me with nothing but skepticism. You don't know how many boards I've seen full of sixteen, seventeen, and eighteen-year-olds congratulating themselves on how much more mature they are than thirteen, fourteen, and fifteen-year-olds.

Honestly, people, what is your objective? Why do you want me to give out personal information? None of you has expressed the LEAST interest in the book for any reason other than that you know Servone, and none of you has expressed the least interest in ordering it. Rollo, I'm just doing the best I can. Home publishing is extremely hard. Until you've tried it, I say you'd be better off not telling me that what I'm doing is "not cool".

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Baby Rollo
Sounds like it's going to be over pretty soon and unfortunately, I don't think it will be a happy ending. (hint, hint)
WOW. That was a pretty vague antecedent. Perhaps you could clarify just a little bit on what "it" is, what a happy ending is, and what sort of ending you think said "it" will have.

Baby Rollo
October 6th, 2003, 08:25 PM
Well, I think they were pretty interested when they asked how they can contact you in order to order the book over the internet.

They didn't put you on the defensive, you put yourself there.

Bill Gates was inexperienced, but he was pretty smart and he was older than you at the time.


WOW. That was a pretty vague antecedent. Perhaps you could clarify just a little bit on what "it" is, what a happy ending is, and what sort of ending you think said "it" will have.

I was hoping that Martin would close this topic. It's like one of my political topics where everyone feels pretty bad in the end. This topic is just a bunch of bickering and bantering.

Airemia
October 6th, 2003, 08:28 PM
Er, I think no one expressing an interest in the book is because of the way you're acting.

And excuse me, I had no idea that I was actually a sixteen/seventeen/eighteen-year-old congratulating myself on how much more mature than a fifteen-year-old I am. I guess I'll have to go and get that little error on my birth-certificate fixed. For the record, I never said that I *wasn't* immature and arrogant. I am. That's why I'm not expecting people to give me their money when they've got nothing to go on but a "don't worry, I'm trustworthy!" with a few "w/e"s and "up yours!"s thrown in there as well. :rolleyes:

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 08:34 PM
Not you guys Airema. You guys don't do that stuff. Other boards at other places on the net. I thought you guys didn't do that kinda stuff. So I started this thread. Probably shouldn't have. Oh well, it's too late now. I thought you guys would be supportive of me. Read the thread. Supportive is exactly what you've not been. Every single thing I said has been a response to something someone else said. Never have I started a fight. Look at my first post. I haven't been acting in any way other than the way I've been provoked.

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 08:41 PM
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0004789/board/thread/3014638
There's a link to the worst case of the condition I've now dubbed "maturity congratulation" ever. You guys have never done it, don't do it, and I don't think will EVER do it because it's pointless. That's why I thought you'd be receptive...*cough*

Boar the Fighter
October 6th, 2003, 08:44 PM
Oh, and Rollo, I'm not suggesting that I'm Bill Gates. But Bill Gates dropped out of college to start his little buisness and everyone thought he was crazy. I guess I'm just saying that everything's gotta start somewhere, and if I start younger than Bill Gates, doesn't that mean I've got the jump on him? Of course, I don't have anywhere near as good ideas as he did, but maybe I'll get there someday. I'm a whole lot more likely to get there someday if I start now than if I don't.:)

Airemia
October 6th, 2003, 08:44 PM
You're contradicting yourself. If we've never done it, stop implying we have.

The Long Patrol isn't here to make you feel good, Boar. :rolleyes:

Martin the Warrior
October 6th, 2003, 09:12 PM
Boar
Whatever Martin, I didn't pick any fight, and I think you realize it. This fight was picked with me.

No, Boar, you did. Again, Reds did not address you a single time, he did not personally attack you, he questioned your methods and whether it was a wise business move. You replied with "Up yours." "Go soak your head." and so forth.


You ask Servone to take a serious look at the point brought up in the discussion. What is your objective?

To ensure that a friend does not act hastily. Do I (or Reds) think you're a con-man? No. But, this is not about you. This is about Servone. I believe it's unwise for him to enter into a business arrangement of any kind without some form of legal agreement between the two parties involved. Where intellectual property is concerned, there should always be a legal agreement. Whether he follows our advice or not is up to him. But, giving him that advice does not clear you to say, "Up yours."


I think that what you're doing is sitting back and taking potshots (saying that he trusts Servone more than he trusts me [which, by the way, is a personal attack]), because you want to make yourselves feel good.

I've yet to see you correctly identify a personal attack on this forum, Boar. No, it's not. Saying "I like peaches more than pears" is not a personal attack on pears, but a testimonial for peaches. A personal attack is along the lines of "You're stupid", "You're an idiot", or "Up yours".

"Servone, I trust you more." does not translate into "Boar is a liar." It is what it is-- which is a statement that he trusts Servone more.

Furthermore, I have taken no pot shots at you-- I've stayed out of this thread up till now.


You want to tell me that I'm an immature fourteen-year-old AND that I'm somehow conning Servone. I don't know how many times this has to be shown before you guys realize...I AM NOT CONNING ANYONE!

You don't seem to understand that telling Servone to take the proper legal precautions is not exactly accusing you of conning him.

I repeat, you were out of line and you get one more chance. This discussion is over, whether you agree with my assessment or not.

Lord Servone
October 6th, 2003, 09:33 PM
Can I say something before/if this thread is closed? I'm not going to give up on "Ivan" being published. The enthusasim people showed when I annouced it is making me determined to get it out for you all to read...I have been brought to a pretty cool site that may very well help. Whether or not my business with Jon will come to an end remains to be seen but I am going to submit "Ivan" to this site I have discovered. If all goes well, it will be in the typical format of books. I can't tell if its paperback or not but it looks good either way. Anyway, I need to convince certain people there is at least the seeds of a possible following for this book. I'll speak of how things wind up...

Pawflash
October 6th, 2003, 09:40 PM
Wow, this has certainly escalated since I last checked.

I must say, Boar, that I was slightly intrigued when you said
I'll still make money if I sell two or more copies than I print. No one else seemed to have picked up on it, probably disregarding it for an explanatory error, as I hope it is. Otherwise, I'd like to know how you intend to sell more books than you print.

Beyond that miscue, I must say I'm rather irked by the way you've since acted, Boar. Not only have you taken offense too easily in many cases, but you've turned everyone against you by saying things like "up yours." After that, sadly, I don't think many people here would consider buying Ivan from you, even scribal wisdom aside. Last but not least, I'm concerned that you've done one thing anyone who wants to succeed in business cannot do: you've given up. At first I was impressed by your entrepreneurial spirit, but now you've walked away from potential sales. It might be a bit too late now, but it seems to me that a public apology seems due nonetheless.