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Slagar the Cruel
October 21st, 2003, 02:07 PM
Well, we've had several anime threads here at the LP forums, but I don't believe we've had a thread about animation in general so far. I'd say it's about time we did. ;)

Here are a few points to focus on:

1) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?

2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?

6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?

8) What do you think about anime?


I'll post with my personal responses a little later. (I'm a bit afraid I'll run out of room. ;))

Baby Rollo
October 21st, 2003, 02:51 PM
1) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?

Don't know

2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?

Inuyasha

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?

Don't Know

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?

Don't Know

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?

FLCL

6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?

Definitely Dragon Ball Z

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?

It's a new medium

8) What do you think about anime?

It's as good as American cartoons, but the fans are a bit crazy.

Slagar the Cruel
October 21st, 2003, 03:07 PM
And here are my personal responses.

1) It's hard to say, but I'm pretty sure it's a toss-up between Batman: The Animated Series and Dexter's Laboratory. I choose B:TAS because I feel it is one of the most well-written, well-designed, and overall well-done TV shows ever created. It arguably redefined the Batman franchise more than anything else in it's recent history, cementing the movie's switch of the public eye from the goofy campiness of the Adam West Batman show to the the dark and serious Batman of today. My reasons for choosing Dexter's Laboratory are, to be fair, largely rooted in lasting personal bias from when I was a bit younger. Even still, almost every episode was consistently and genuinely funny (something I find to be extremely rare in "family-friendly" cartoons these days). It found a way to revolve myriads of bizzare concepts around an initially absurd and seemingly limited premise while establishing a great cast of characters and remaining continuously entertaining. It's a terrible shame that they've ruined the series by turning it in to completely incapable hands. A fairly close runner-up to these shows would be Mobile Suit Gundam, a serious, epic, and thoroughly believable saga with three-dimensional and sympathetic characters - on both sides of the war.

2) Deciding this was surprisingly tough for me, seeing as I started writing this with an answer already in mind, but ultimately the honor goes to my first choice - Justice League. Continuing in the tradition of Batman: TAS and Superman: TAS, JL recreates a classic franchise (really several, this time around) by turning it into a great show; a show that doesn't talk down to the viewers, and which isn't afraid of saying what it means. Okay, well, it didn't *always* work out that way, but it generally maintained that level of quality, and it actually seems to have greatly stepped up in those respects in the second season. (Of course, I've only seen one episode so far, so I can't say anything for sure.) A close second for me would be Family Guy, which I believe has greatly improved on many concepts invented by The Simpsons. It's almost always funny, but there are a few points where it's plagued by the pitfalls of stupidity and overly-labeled social commentary. Other runner-ups include the new He-man series, which is a great show but still needs to be taken with the grain of salt refreshingly unneeded for shows such as B:TAS and JL (well, most of the time), and Samurai Jack, which could have been much better if the wit that the creator used to make Dexter's Laboratory so great was more often combined with the action aspect of the show, and if it was done more seamlessly when done at all.

3) I honestly can't decide right now. Maybe I'll get back to you all on that. ;)

4) Definately Spirited Away, which combined the charm of My Neighbor Totoro with the otherwordliness of stories such as Alice and Wonderland. Although to be fair, Finding Nemo wasn't that bad either. ;)

5) Once again, it was tough to decide, but I suppose I'd pick Sonic the Hedgehog as the most underrated animated series of all time. I'm sure most people either brush it off as a cheap video game adaptation (or worse, confuse it with the horrible Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog), but it was a great series with many qualities - a cast of solid three-dimensional characters, a world where the bad guys already won, a competent villain who is actively opressing the good guys (most of which are enslaved), and a strong continuity - that made it a real blast to watch. As for the most underrated animated movie, I'd probably say The Brave Little Toaster. This is probably just deep-rooted childhood nostalgia, but I still think it's a great movie. It's not just "fluff", either. There are a lot of surprisingly dark and serious moments (the beginning of the junkyard scene is a downright depressing metaphorical look at old age and death).

6) Gundam Wing. Admittedly, the animation and the music were good, but everything else was a complete mess. The characters were "dark" and "brooding" to a ridiculous excess, the battles were often little more than a meaningless series of explosions, and it kept slapping the viewers in the face with metaphysical ramblings which, when you get right down to it, make little or no sense. As if that wasn't bad enough, it's supposed to be some type of "homage" to the original, far superior, Mobile Suit Gundam, although all it really used were the idea of space colonies and Gundams and the appearance of Commander Char. (To be fair, it did take a great deal of ideas from the Mobile Suit Gundam movie, Char's Counterattack - which was every bit as bad as Gundam Wing.)

7) Eh, it can be good when used effectively, but it's not right for everything. Take Transformers: Beast Wars. Sure, CG was perfect for it - the characters were robots, after all, so extremely little was lost in the transition (or should I say, transformation? No, that would be a horrible pun) to CG. But overall, traditional animation is more expressive, more stylistic, and it doesn't ask us to question the realness of the visuals as much as CG does.

8) I think "anime" encompasses to broad a range to be judged accurately. Both excellent and terrible anime shows/movies have been created, and so I feel it's impossible to judge all anime together under one description or verdict.

Red Draco
October 21st, 2003, 03:32 PM
1) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?

Batman: The Animated Series. To this day, I've never seen an after-school cartoon series that was so mature, so stylish. I was disappointed when the show fell into WB's hands, and they tried to make it more family-friendly. It really slid downhill after that. Other cartoons like Justice League and the new Spiderman try hard, but don't come close to the masterpiece that was The Animated Series.

2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?

I haven't been keeping up with TV much lately. There's an animated series based on the "Silverwing" books airing on Teletoon, but I don't care much for the character designs and the liberties taken with the characters themselves.

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?

The Lion King. A friend of mine is buying the DVD for me. Can't wait. :D :D :D

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?

"Finding Nemo" was really cute. Other than that, I haven't been able to afford much in the way of theatre-hopping. Too bad, because I've been itching to see "Spirited Away" and the Cowboy Bebop movie.

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?

"Cybersix." It was a big hit in Canada and Japan, but it totally flopped in the States, thanks in part to stupid scheduling and Fox Kids' weird censorship. It was a really slick, cool cartoon to watch intact, but it was a confusing mess on Fox. Granted, some of the episode plots were weak with or without censorship, but with a little work on those, it really could've been one of the greatest cartoons ever. Too bad it cost a million US for each episode to be produced. @_@ That's what killed the cartoon in the end.

I also am an adoring fan of "Big O," which wasn't so popular in Japan and enjoys only mild popularity over here. I'm no mecha fan, but something about the unusual designs in Big O is attractive. And Roger Smith is just too cool.

6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?

Inuyasha. Slap my wrist for this one, because I, too, like the series and as I mentioned before in another post, I don't know why. It's saturated with typical cliches about demon hunting, it stars a whiny little girl, the anime doesn't convince me for a second that it's set in Feudal Japan ... but I'm still watching. I guess because once in a while there's an ep that makes watching worthwhile (like the episode with the Soul Piper).

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?

In the right hands (Mainframe), it's impressive. In the wrong hands (Mainframe), it's less than so. Take a long-running series like "ReBoot." I never liked -- and still don't like -- the first season because it seemed as if Mainframe was saying, "Hey look! Neat effects! Let's forget about a plot!" That, thankfully, changed by the second half of the second season, when things started to go sour in Mainframe (the world, not the company XP). That's also when ABC stopped airing the show and Mainframe only had to deal with Canadian censors, who pretty much let anything go on Canadian-made shows. Coincidence? Probably not. The third season had a plot worth following (though not at first), and the "movies" were just awesome.

"Beast Wars" (Beasties! ARGH) was also a good series, and this is coming from a very casual Transformers fan. I haven't seen every episode (not even the famous "Code of Hero," or whichever ep it was where Dinobot dies), so that's something I'd really like to do. Inferno was a riot. Mainframe's Spiderman cartoon is also very decent, but I've never been a Spiderman fan, so I'm no judge.

But without a good story, a CGI cartoon means nothing. Heck, even with a story, it can still mean nothing. "Beast Machines" had a plot, but it was so inane, I found that I didn't care about it 95% of the time.

8) What do you think about anime?

Like any medium from any corner of the world, it has its good and it has its bad. I've always believed this. I'm a fan of animation from all over the world and in no way do I believe that American cartoons are better vs anime, or vice versa. They're both subject to their strengths and weaknesses. You wouldn't compare "Snow White" to "Gilligan's Planet," so why do so many people act like "Pokemon" is on the same level as "Grave of the Fireflies?"

Martin the Warrior
October 21st, 2003, 05:22 PM
Good topic with some great replies so far. I'll throw my two cents in (as I've long characterized myself as a fan of "animation", not just "anime").

1) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?

It is incredibly difficult not to let sentimentality interfere with these, because I have an intense respect and liking of classic animated series, such as Looney Tunes, Mickey Mouse, The Flintstones, and The Jetsons. It's very difficult to compare those series to modern fare such as the much acclaimed Batman: The Animated Series. Having said that, I would give the final nod to Batman: TAS, since it's one of the few cartoons that really hit all cylinders and I've yet to see it surpassed. Paul Dini and Bruce Timm created something special here by grounding the series and pitting Batman against gangsters, corrupt business men, kidnappers, as well as super-villains. What's more, they took the time to make the villains sympathetic (Mr. Freeze and Two-Face, anyone?). That was something they lost with The New Adventures of Batman on the WB-- it moved Batman to super-hero-only status and villains wound up getting less and less attention (of course, The Creeper episode was funny).

2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?

A few months ago I would have said He-Man, as I'm a big fan of the revival and think they're doing a great job-- certainly the best among the many revivals going on. That or Justice League (which is finally solving their Superman problem in season two). However, I'll go to left field and say Teen Titans. I'm not exactly a Titans fan, although I've heard a lot about the old series and know enough about the stories to realize they had something special. So, I wasn't going into the series as a long-time fan. Most of the characters (save Robin and possibly Deathstroke/Slade) I knew of only in passing/guest appearances, so there was no emotional attachment. And, certainly, after the first episode I wasn't sure what to expect as it was a radical departure from the past DCU animated series. However, after watching the first twelve episodes of season one (only one episode remains, to air next month), I have to say that this series is something special. It's just fun. Whereas at times Justice League can seem to be a super-hero team where the only difference between members is the costume and super-powers, Teen Titans goes the extra mile and very clearly defines each member's personality. What's more, they skillfully develop the friendship between the heroes so that by the time the climax of the season rolls about, you feel as bewildered as they do when they're forced to fight one of their own. The episodes don't bog themselves down with plots akin to JL or Batman, in fact they don't even deal with their heroes having secret identities (we don't know which Robin this is), but each episode is undeniably fun. For that, I give Teen Titans the nod for "Best Current Animated Series". Give it a try if you haven't yet.

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?

I'd be torn between classics such as Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Beauty and the Beast, or The Lion King.

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?

It would be a toss-up between Spirited Away and Finding Nemo, both of which were incredibly well-done but which are so different it's difficult to compare the two. Spirited Away was something special, though.

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?

Hmm... The Mysterious Cities of Gold and Spartacus for TV series, both of which aired on Nickelodeon during the '80's. They were excellent series and deserved more success. On the movie side, I guess Transformers: The Movie, for obvious reasons. ;)

6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?

I definitely believe Inu Yasha is overrated, but I'll dip into the past and go with Ren & Stimpy. I honestly could never see the appeal. As a side-note, while I like the series, I also think Neon Genesis Evangelion is incredibly overrated and undeserving of the sheer amount of praise heaped upon it.

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?

I've got no problems with it. I'm aware of the flaws of the technology (primarily posture and interaction, and possibly lip movement), but I think it's a valid form of animation and has yielded some incredible shows/movies. Pixar's library is the obvious choice to list for movies, as is Shrek, and even Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within (the plot suffered, not the animation). On the small screen, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Reboot, the new Spider-Man series on MTV, etc. are all very well done and I've found all four of the shows I mentioned to be very enjoyable. I'll never support replacing 2D cel animation with CG, but welcome CG shows with open arms.

8) What do you think about anime?

At times overrated, but largely deserving of the following it's received. But, not because it's anime-- because it's embraced animation as a serious form of storytelling. The strength of anime is not the animation, the flashy effects, the speed lines, or the googly eyes: it's the storytelling. Miyazaki definitely gets this, as do others. That's why many series over there are only 26 episodes, telling a finite plotline, whereas here we're focused on getting renewed for another season (meaning things have to be episodic as a result). That's not to say anime is superior, but that's one of the reasons I like it. Of course, for every Escaflowne you've got a Ronin Warriors, so things balance out.

There are my answers to the questions, now for the replies. ;)

Senav
October 21st, 2003, 05:49 PM
1. Batman: TAS? If it's the show I think I'm thinking about, then I freakin' worshipped that show! I was a killer Batman fan, mostly because of bats. Gimme a break, I was six or seven.
Really, the only show that I remember, liked all the characters, also worshipped, was Beast Wars. Or, as YTV likes to call it, Beasties. Too bad half the episodes I had were taped over. *snarls*
So, not to go with the crowd, I'd say Beast Wars (Beasties?).

2. Couldn't tell ya. I don't watch ALL the new shows, some of 'em are just too "ugh" for even my tastes. At the risk of being tarred and feathered by Red Draco, I think Silverwing is pretty cool. Sure, it doesn't follow the book worth mud, but it's still a good series. And that's coming from one who read the books first.

3. I don't knoooow! Wait. Secret of NIMH. Super-good movie on so many levels, only to be brought down by a crud-tacular sequel.

4. I've seen a recent animated movie? *snort* The Emporer's New Groove is (relatively) recent, and it's...well, what more is there to say?

5. The Watership Down movie. Everyone on here knows about it, I'm sure, but if I ask anyone in real life about it, I'd probably get "What the heck is that?"
Just replace heck with the most offensive word you know.

6. Dunno. I wouldn't know if what I happen to be watching is overrated or not. My sister says I'm "not in touch with the world". It might be true, but don't tell her I said that;) .
It seems to me a lot of of people will get all nutty over an anime series that isn't all that great. As usual, the book (or manga *grin*) is better.

7. Some of the CG series are good. Some of 'em are just eye candy (how would you put candy in your eye, anyway?).

8. Like CG. Some of it's great, some of it seems to be made for the sole purpose of shutting the kids up for 30 minutes. I haven't gotten the chance to see stuff like Spirited Away (shame on me), but I want to so badly...Little kawaii fangirls who write impossible fanfiction and such annoy me, luckily I haven't met any personally, internet or real life.
I must admit, Sesshomaru looks cool...

Martin the Warrior
October 21st, 2003, 05:51 PM
Slagar
A close second for me would be Family Guy, which I believe has greatly improved on many concepts invented by The Simpsons.

I don't agree at all. Family Guy tries too hard and, as a result, trips just shy of the goal line.


Char's Counterattack - which was every bit as bad as Gundam Wing.

Again, I disagree-- this time on both counts! ;) GW was and is enjoyable to watch. The fandom is annoying, but the series is solid. It's not the greatest, but it's not as awful as people say.

As for Char's Counterattack-- depressing at times, and probably not so enjoyable for Amuro fans, but it lived up as the end of the saga that is Amuro and Char. It and the original Gundam are on par with each other for me.


Draco
Other cartoons like Justice League and the new Spiderman try hard, but don't come close to the masterpiece that was The Animated Series.

I certainly agree with that. ;) I think it's impossible for a series to ever match Batman, though. It's like trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice. I often wish they would revert the animation style to the original TAS version, which was vastly superior (and made Bruce look sympathetic, rather than a wild-eyed billionaire playboy). I'm very interested in seeing the upcoming Mystery of the Batwoman straight-to-video/DVD movie, though, as the early reviews characterize it as a TAS story with the WB-style animation. I can only hope they got rid of the annoying red skies, though.


I also am an adoring fan of "Big O," which wasn't so popular in Japan and enjoys only mild popularity over here.

I wouldn't say "mild". Afterall, it was the success in the US that got the second season made. Big O is quite the cult hit (and deservedly so). It's one of the few series where I honestly don't know what's coming.


That's also when ABC stopped airing the show and Mainframe only had to deal with Canadian censors, who pretty much let anything go on Canadian-made shows. Coincidence? Probably not.

Making "Beasties" all the more ironic. ;)


I haven't seen every episode (not even the famous "Code of Hero," or whichever ep it was where Dinobot dies), so that's something I'd really like to do.

Do so. Rhino gives you the perfect opportunity by releasing them as season sets (although fans expect the second and third seasons to be put on one set, seeing as how they're only thirteen episodes apiece). I've picked up the first season set and-- while lacking on extras (only two interviews, but they're fun ones with the main writers, Larry DiTillio and Bob Forward), they've got all 26 original episodes and go for only $40 US.

But, you definitely need to see "Code of Hero", which to this day remains one of my favorite episodes of an animated series. Not sure how well it would stand up without the preceding 34 episodes, though.


Mainframe's Spiderman cartoon is also very decent, but I've never been a Spiderman fan, so I'm no judge.

I'm a longtime fan of Spider-Man and the series does a very good (not excellent, but very good) job of translating him into a TV series. They did an awesome job of getting his movements during fights just right. Storywise it's hit and miss, but this Spider-Fan was able to enjoy it, so I'd give the series a thumbs-up, myself.


Heck, even with a story, it can still mean nothing. "Beast Machines" had a plot, but it was so inane, I found that I didn't care about it 95% of the time.

I wouldn't go that far, myself. The organics on Cybertron thing was annoying (as was Cheetor "taking over"), but Beast Machines was, overall, an enjoyable series (moreso the first season). Just not up to Beast Wars level. ;)


so why do so many people act like "Pokemon" is on the same level as "Grave of the Fireflies?"

Because they're both anime! Didn't you get the memo? ;)

LadyBeelze
October 21st, 2003, 06:15 PM
1) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?
I'm mixed on this, i don't really know how to answer this one. I renember watching when i was a little kid Batman, X-Men, etc

2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?
Teen Titans

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?
The lion king. I can renember first seeing it when i was little and how i cried a bit. It still seems as good as it use to be infact.

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?
Spirited Away, it just rocked. I loved the animation and the story was decent too.

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?
...redwall, i don't know a lot of people where i live that watch it
But other than that i don't have anything to say


6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?
Pokemon...*cough* ..though i shouldn't say anything since its aimed at little kids. Well the tv show anyway, the videogames pretty decent.
Inuyasha ^^ ..i have no clue why i like the series..its so long and running over and over on the same kind of thing..hopefully it will end in the next 50 episodes

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?
I luv it, its so cool what we can do with today. Beast machines was pretty cool..wonder what happened to it
And look at finding nemo, toy story, monsters inc and shrek.

8) What do you think about anime
I adore it. I like it better than american cartoons mostly because of what martin said. Theres a definate story-line in there and i like it. Most american cartoons have random episodes that you don't even know where they fit in with each other. But on the other hand they contain lots of humor which anime sometimes lacks..

LordTBT
October 21st, 2003, 06:19 PM
) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?

tie between teenage mutant ninja turtles, beavis and butthead, rockos modern life, ren and stimpy, and somthing else i cant think of.

2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?

I dont watch cartoons I have more sophisticated adult type things to do.

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?

best animated as in skill? Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within
best animated as in company? Disney and Disney/Pixar
best animated as in story? Aladdin

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?

Only recent one was Finding Nemo, and i liked it

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?

Redwall

6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?

Pokemon

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?

I like it

8) What do you think about anime?

I hate it, and its garbage

Red Draco
October 21st, 2003, 09:27 PM
Paul Dini and Bruce Timm created something special here by grounding the series and pitting Batman against gangsters, corrupt business men, kidnappers, as well as super-villains. What's more, they took the time to make the villains sympathetic (Mr. Freeze and Two-Face, anyone?)

Yes! This is what I've been trying to say for years, but could never put my finger on the words. Batman TAS was never just about Bats taking down The Joker. There were gangsters, corrupt politicians, drug peddlers, etc. I remember one episode (forgive me, it's been years since I've seen it) where a mobster becomes enraged when his son overdoses on drugs ... and it turns out he'd gotten the drugs from one of his father's men. It was a powerful moment and there was no cartoony mascot shoving "Don't Do Drugs" down your throat, either. When you come right down to it, TAS never talked down to its audience.

I found my favourite episodes were the ones with villians that appeared once, maybe twice. I have never been able to spell this fellow's name, but -- Rais Algul, the dude who's been resurrected. I loved any episode with him in it. Other awesome eps involved the Underdwellers (with the Sewer King) and The Forgotten (the homeless who are stolen off the street and forced to work in mines). I also remember one episode where Batman was struck by powerful hallucinations and became his own worst enemy. And then there was Man-Bat. Gotta love Man-Bat.

But what realy made TAS shine was the way it could easily lighten up with a humourous episode once in a while. To this day, the episode with Harlequinn and Poison Ivy is still a classic.


A few months ago I would have said He-Man, as I'm a big fan of the revival and think they're doing a great job

I agree. I don't watch it regularily (just with my husband sometimes), but despite a bit of a rocky start, it's not a bad cartoon at all. I don't think I was even a big fan of the original when I was little.

I don't like Teen Titans. I just don't like it when an American cartoon (North American, more accurately) tries to emulate anime. It's a massive pet peeve of mine. Raven and Beast Boy are kind of cool, though.


Ren & Stimpy. I honestly could never see the appeal.

Ahh, R and S. I loved this one as a kid. I still do -- within reason. I feel that the first season of the show was sheer brilliance. Whereas I can't stand re-watching some of the shows that I used to love as a kid (Tiny Toons), I can still get a huge laugh out of Stimpy's Invention. Not all episodes were witty. In fact, some were just garbage, and the whole show following John K's explusion was all trash. Something about John K himself just added some magic ... or powdered toast dust.

Granted, the new R and S isn't nearly as good as the first season of the old series was. I honestly believe it's because K isn't held down by censors anymore, and he can do what he wants. What he's always wanted. In short, he always just wanted Ren and Stimpy to be a show about bodily fluids and raunchy jokes. It disappoints me a little. I think that, because he didn't have free reign while with Nickelodeon, he was forced to come up with other ways to amuse and it brought out the best in him. Ironic, isn't it?


I also think Neon Genesis Evangelion is incredibly overrated and undeserving of the sheer amount of praise heaped upon it.

Have you ever read Toastyfrog's Guide to Religion in Gaming? Required reading for ANY anime / game fan, most of whom need to wake up and realise that Religious Symbolism in their cartoons does not instantly equal Depth any more than a crowbar in my corn flakes instantly equals a nutritious iron source:

http://www.toastyfrog.com/features/features/religion_01.shtml


I wouldn't say "mild". Afterall, it was the success in the US that got the second season made. Big O is quite the cult hit (and deservedly so). It's one of the few series where I honestly don't know what's coming.

Agreed, it's not as "mild" as I made it out to be. I keep forgetting there's a second season. ;) (I'm getting a friend in the States to tape it for me.) It seems to be an anime that's more popular with the older kids, which is funny because there's a distinct lack of of swearing, violence, and the other kind of stuff that makes kids believe they're all growed up because they're watching anime. It's also one of the closest things to Batman: TAS in the history of anything, which is not surprising because it's obviously a tribute.


I wouldn't go that far, myself. The organics on Cybertron thing was annoying (as was Cheetor "taking over"), but Beast Machines was, overall, an enjoyable series (moreso the first season). Just not up to Beast Wars level.

Nightscream was annoying. You just know he was someone's Mary Sue. It's a shame, because I like bats. The organics on Cybertron made no sense, and Optimus' hippie attitude wore down on me after a while (although he thankfully tones it down in the later eps). Even though the same voice actor returned, Megatron just wasn't Megatron. And that bit with getting rid of his organic form because he was disgusted by it ... um, what? Why?

Yet, it wasn't horrible by any means. Frankly, I can stomach it a lot better than Armada, which I don't follow at all. My main complaint is that nothing was memorable. All the episodes just blur together in my head. I remember a lot of running away, and I remember Noble Savage was kind of cool.


At the risk of being tarred and feathered by Red Draco, I think Silverwing is pretty cool. Sure, it doesn't follow the book worth mud, but it's still a good series. And that's coming from one who read the books first.

Oh, it's not a bad series, really. I just don't like the character designs and the fact I once saw the mutated rat brother (I think his name was Remus?) was up in the sunlight, attending a conference given by Brutus. Isn't he supposed to be hidden? I don't mind taking liberties with ideas (I watched "Redwall" after all), but stuff like that is a little too much for me. I would probably follow it if I didn't keep forgetting it's on. XD Did they at least keep the scene where Shade pretends to cannibalise the bat so that he can drug Goth and Throbb?



The Watership Down movie. Everyone on here knows about it, I'm sure, but if I ask anyone in real life about it, I'd probably get "What the heck is that?"

Aaaah, how could I forget to talk about the WS Down movie? The animation is still some of the most impressive ever done. The plot sometimes suffered because they had to stuff a big book into a short movie (three-hour features based on books were unheard of back then XD), but I'd recommend it to anyone just for the "Bright Eyes" sequence.

And how could I also forget about the "Transformers" movie? I know a lot of fans hate it because their favourite Transformers are slaughtered like nothing, but you have to admit it took a lot of guts from the producers to make a movie that they knew kids were going to attend -- and watch their heroes die.

rowanoak
October 22nd, 2003, 12:47 PM
1) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?
I am not sure, there are a number of series I really like. I would say "Redwall" or "Sonic the Hedgehog" or any number of shows that were apart of the Disney Afternoon, like "Darkwing Duck" or "Talespin."

2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?
Probably, "Recess" or "Buzz Lightyear of Starcommand."

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?
Maybe "Lion King" or "An American Tail."

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?
"Toy Story"

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?
"Redwall," and I agree with Slagar about "Sonic the Hedgehog." That show deserves much more respect than it gets, for all the reasons Slagar said.

6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?
Probably "Pokamon"

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?
I like it, however I hope hand drawn animation never goes away.

8) What do you think about anime?
I have not been impressed by the anime I have seen, except maybe "Sailor Moon."

The Red Badger
October 22nd, 2003, 01:38 PM
I dont watch cartoons I have more sophisticated adult type things to do.

:rolleyes:


Yes! This is what I've been trying to say for years, but could never put my finger on the words.

I think they changed it to that degree because they were now trying to fit Batman's world into Superman's world. That whole "Batman/Superman Hour" (which had an awesome opening). All for World's Finest (admittedly cool). The show had to become more "super-hero'y" by nature because suddenly Robin and Batgirl (and occasionally Nightwing) seemed to be involved in*everything*. And then they dropped the retro feel. You could never perfectly peg what time the series was set in, it had an old '40's feel at first what with the cars and fashion, you had cops using blimps, planes using propellers, no real overuse of technology (sure Bat's had his computer and we had that whole Hardak/duplicates episode, but there wasn't an internet, etc.), countless thugs wielding tommy-guns, and so-forth.

But in Superman we had spaceships, jet planes, S.T.A.R. Labs, alien invasions, LexCorp battlesuits. . . all well and good for Superman. But, when you put Batman into that same universe, you lose the retro feel. THAT damaged the series every bit as much as losing the street-level crime, IMO.

And the redesigns didn't help. :p


I have never been able to spell this fellow's name, but -- Rais Algul

It's Ra's Al Ghul. And, yeah, he rocks, when he's done right. I never liked his portrayal in the Superman show. On the other hand, he absolutely made that Jonah Hex wild west episode of Batman work. Distinguished villains are awesome.


[Big O] seems to be an anime that's more popular with the older kids, which is funny because there's a distinct lack of of swearing, violence, and the other kind of stuff that makes kids believe they're all growed up because they're watching anime.

Wonderful mindset, ain't it? :lol: (I'm being sarcastic if anyone can't tell.) There is swearing in the second season, tho.


Nightscream was annoying.

Nightscream was the worst creation since, I dunno, Greedo firing first or something. I couldn't look at him without flashing to the "surf's up" Superboy.


but you have to admit it took a lot of guts from the producers to make a movie that they knew kids were going to attend -- and watch their heroes die.

I've always wondered how many kids that movie messed up, tho. I loved it, but how many kids had nightmares when Ratchet's eyes went dark and orange smoke spewed from his mouth as he died? I mean, geez. It's like a kid going to Disney World only to see Mickey Mouse ripped limb from limb. So much for "the happiest place on earth". :p

Baby Rollo
October 22nd, 2003, 02:39 PM
That Jonah Hex episode is one of my favorites. It reminded me of the movie Wild Wild West.

And I like the Transformers movie because they said a naughty word.
Just kidding, I never saw it.

Gonff
October 22nd, 2003, 03:01 PM
The best cartoons are the Simpsons and Family Guy.

They're so funny.


D'OH- Homer Simpson

Cale Yin
October 22nd, 2003, 04:24 PM
Woot! A nice beefy topic. :)

1) The best animated series of all time is Rocko's Modern Life.
I LOVE that show. Following close behind are Angry Beavers and AAAAH Real Monsters. CLOSELY closely behind.

2) The best recent animated series is Clone High. That's so funny. That is an awesome show. It's on MTV and I've only seen a couple episodes but that's one of the funniest durn things I've ever seen.

3) The best animated movie of all time is Lion King or Beauty and the Beast. Or Fantasia. I LOVE DISNEY...

4) The most recent animated movie I've seen that was my favorite... is um.... umumumum um... ?? Spirit, I guess.

5) I dunno any obscure stuff.

6) The most overrated series is Pokemon. Bleh.

7) What I think about CG is that it's cool but sometimes can be slightly annoying with the ROUNDNESS of everything. Heads and fingers, mainly.

8) Of anime, I think it's not something I ever really got interested in and don't know anything about and with my parents breathing down my neck about college I honestly don't have time for it.

Senav
October 22nd, 2003, 07:33 PM
Me post 'um reply. Ug.


Did they at least keep the scene where Shade pretends to cannibalise the bat so that he can drug Goth and Throbb?
I think they did. The series hasn't gotten that far, but there's an episode guide on Teletoon's site. That ep. with the cabin and Sirocco was kept in too, I think.
The character designs...they look pretty good on their own, but they don't really fit in with Silverwing. Marina's color is close to the real thing, assuming she's a red bat (they have really bright fur).


The best recent animated series is Clone High. That's so funny. That is an awesome show.
Heh. I like it too. Have you seen the one with Tom Green?

PiarasJ
October 22nd, 2003, 10:47 PM
1) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?
I really don't know, Disney has done some good ones, like darkwing duck, that sort of thing, but I don't know if I'd like it if I watched it now. Probably not I'd say. I really dislike nickelodeon cartoons, they're a bit over the top.

2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?
I don't watch television anymore, so I wouldn't know, we get different cartoons to you as well, so that confuses things a bit. I have to say that I haven't seen any quality in quite some time to tell the truth. That makes me sound like a grumpy old man. ;)

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?
I haven't seen it, but Atlantis looks amazing. Treasure planet was wicked, mainly because of Jim's surfboard ;) and because they're pirates. B.E.N. was waaaaaaay too annoying. I nearly threw a rock through the screen when he didn't get shot after jumping up in the window and letting the pirates know where they were hiding. Grr.

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?
Treasure planet. The animation was clever, especially how they combined CG and traditional in Silvers arm. Breathtaking. ;)

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?
Philbert the frog, because I reckon I'm the only person on this planet who remembers it.

6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?
Anime is overrated... Pokemon is rubbish. I haven't seen any quality anime but there probably is some. I get really peeved at demon hunting and blue hair and silly poses. But I can imagine some good stuff, if the old comics are anything to go by. There probably is a fair amount of quality, but they all seem bloodthirsty and evil to me. Or sickeningly cute.

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?
I think it can look really good, as in finding nemo and ice age, but when there are humans in it, they look plastic and...silly. I still prefer traditional animation when it's done well, but I think CG is needed to provide some wow factor, as in Atlantis and cartoons like that. If the mix is right, I can imagine quality going way up.

8) What do you think about anime?
I touched on it in #6...I don't like it. I can see the appeal in some cases, but it just doesn't appeal to me. I can't pronounce their names for one thing. ;) There's too much of it for another, and it all seems the same. There's always this pervading sense of stupidity undermining the traditional feel that they seem to be aiming for. That's in the anime that I've seen anyway which isn't all that much. Has anybody seen Ninjai? It's only flash, but I think it's brilliant. Bloodthirsty and evil...but some parts of it are really well done. Feel free to cut down everything I just said. :)

Martin the Warrior
October 22nd, 2003, 11:15 PM
Draco
Other awesome eps involved the Underdwellers (with the Sewer King) and The Forgotten (the homeless who are stolen off the street and forced to work in mines). I also remember one episode where Batman was struck by powerful hallucinations and became his own worst enemy. And then there was Man-Bat. Gotta love Man-Bat.

The Forgotten was one of my earlier favorites (one of a handful I'd recorded at the time). Beware the Gray Ghost, A Bullet for Bullock (classic ending), and Lock-Up were also some of my favorites. And I always enjoyed seeing His Silicon Soul for some reason.


I don't like Teen Titans. I just don't like it when an American cartoon (North American, more accurately) tries to emulate anime. It's a massive pet peeve of mine. Raven and Beast Boy are kind of cool, though.

I'll admit those portions can be annoying. I've just managed to overlook them. Have you seen all the episodes? I was rather undecided about the series until I sat down and and worked my way through episodes 4-12 in fairly short order (perhaps giving me the benefit of seeing the arc at work?). It was really the two-part "Apprentice" finale that sold me on the series, though. Like I said, it's just fun, nothing more.


I think that, because he didn't have free reign while with Nickelodeon, he was forced to come up with other ways to amuse and it brought out the best in him. Ironic, isn't it?

That's true for a lot of people and is a minor pet peeve of mine. Working within certain guidelines tends to make people take the extra time to develop situations so that their point gets across without spelling it out. In a sense I think cable TV, as well as other media outlets, have made creators lazy. They'll put what they want to put on the screen and ignore a lot of the craftwork. For instance, I personally think a talented writer should be able to get the exact same point across, evoke the exact same emotion in a G-rated movie as he could in an R-rated movie. That's not to say he has to work with G only, but I think there needs to be a little more self-censorship out there.

Case in-point (and relevant to this discussion! ;)), I recall reading an interview with either Bruce Timm or Paul Dini right before Batman moved to the WB, when the switch was just announced. He was building up the move because the WB wasn't network TV and meant they could, as they put it, "get away with more"-- tell the stories they wanted to tell. "Mad Love" was the example they gave, saying it would be animated on the WB and would have never gotten past Fox. So, on some level at that time, I was expecting the WB-made Batman episodes to blow my socks off. As we've already covered, hardly the case.

As for R&S-- from what I've heard about the new series, it's absolutely horrible. Thankfully I'm missing nothing. ;)


Have you ever read Toastyfrog's Guide to Religion in Gaming? Required reading for ANY anime / game fan, most of whom need to wake up and realise that Religious Symbolism in their cartoons does not instantly equal Depth any more than a crowbar in my corn flakes instantly equals a nutritious iron source:

:lol: Pac-Man? I had no idea. ;) There was a hilarious manipulated screenshot from FFT on RPGamer awhile back, poking fun at how the religious content made the game "deep". Very much along the same lines as that site. It's sad, but true. (DKC? I'm shocked. Utterly shocked. :lol: )


Frankly, I can stomach it a lot better than Armada, which I don't follow at all.

I gave up Armada after episode #4. The only good thing in that show was the remixed theme from the original series. I had hoped that the forthcoming Energon would be better, but it seems to have connections to Armada, so I'm not optimistic. I think we're in for a long draught before there's a decent Transformers series again.


Aaaah, how could I forget to talk about the WS Down movie? The animation is still some of the most impressive ever done.

Glad to hear you finally saw it! (If you'd mentioned that you had somewhere before I must have missed it. ;)) WS Down was an incredibly well done movie.


And how could I also forget about the "Transformers" movie? I know a lot of fans hate it because their favourite Transformers are slaughtered like nothing, but you have to admit it took a lot of guts from the producers to make a movie that they knew kids were going to attend -- and watch their heroes die.

That's part of what made it such a good movie. It served as a fitting end for Optimus and Megatron and had lasting changes to the series (bad as they were. ;)). Without that, I think it would have wound up being like the G.I.-Joe movie-- enjoyable, but unremarkable and ultimately forgettable (the Statue of Liberty opening was the only really outstanding part).

Lord Servone
October 23rd, 2003, 10:18 AM
Before I start, I would like to note that I don't watch that much TV...

1) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?

The Simpsons (at least anything season 3 and after...). There is alot more I can list but I'll refrain

2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?

The new Masters of the Universe show

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?

The Lion King

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?

Spirited Away)

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?

Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas. It was a big budget animated movie with a great cast but nobody went to see it! Why? It was a good movie! Was it because it was 2D? If that's why people didn't see it then that's just pitiful...

The Black Cauldron. Sure, its not the best Disney movie, but its not THAT bad. Maybe people weren't ready for a darker Disney movie...


6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?

The Dragonball series, Beavis and Butthead (though Do America was funny), and King of the Hill (hate, despise, and loath that show...why's it still on!?!)
Moviewise: Shrek. It wasn't funny or even that good. I admit, I did laugh during the interogation scene...I may see the sequal though...but only because it has John Cleese in it...
)

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?

I think its used too much but, all in all, I don't really have a problem with it. I just prefer 2-D. I was quite peeved with Disney when I heard they were cutting their animation department and weren't going to do any more 2D animated movies after the one after the one after Brother Bear. Its not the animation that matters, its the story, for Pete's sake! Sure, Pixar's movies were good...but maybe they would've been just as good if they were 2-D, hmmm?

8) What do you think about anime?

Some of its okay...there's too much of it though. Why does America show so much of it when we are perfectly capable of producing our own quality material? At any rate, most of the anime movies I've seen are pretty good...

The Red Badger
October 23rd, 2003, 06:48 PM
Some of its okay...there's too much of it though. Why does America show so much of it when we are perfectly capable of producing our own quality material?

Cheaper. Grunt work is already done, plot is already written, show is already animated. They just need to dub it and edit it for content. Less money to make back, higher chance for profit. Plus, as that *other* thread proved, it's trendy. Kids are more likely to watch a new anime than they are a home-grown cartoon. :p

Matthias of Redwall
October 23rd, 2003, 10:09 PM
Don't blame me, I don't have a TV, but I will answer as far back as I can remember.(I used to have a TV)


1) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?

Hmmm, hard to tell but I will say Disney Channels in general.

2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?

Can't remember/ Don't know

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?

Pokemon(not funny!)

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?

Don't know

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?

Don't know

6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?

The Dragonball series, Pokemon, Digimon(though those thing starts to die out...phew.)

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?

Don't know, never knew

8) What do you think about anime?

Basically, it is alright

Glenner
October 23rd, 2003, 10:31 PM
Oooh, animation. Purdy stuff. I love it. Best form of on-screen storytelling, IMHO.



1) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?

Rugrats.


2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?

Spongebob Sqaurepants. Hilarious.

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?

The Lion King. It's been my favorite movie since I was seven.

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?

I though Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron was pretty good. And Nemo was awesome.

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?

Disney's Robin Hood. It was a great movie for it's time period. (Disney wasn't doing to good in the 70s.)
Also, The Redwall Television series.
6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?

Definetly Shrek.

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?

I think its wonderful ( Nemo was excellent), but I dont think companies like Disney should give traditonal animation the boot, and continue with only with CG. I think both can coexist peacefully.

8) What do you think about anime?

I've always been kind of neutral towards it. I don't dislike it, bit I never really watch it either.

Rillflag27
October 23rd, 2003, 11:15 PM
1) What would you say is the best animated series of all time?

Fairly Odd Parents and Spongebob Squarepants


2) What would you say the best animated series released recently and/or currently airing is?

see #1

3) What would you say is the best animated movie of all time?

Lion King definantely *cant wait to see the special edition*

4) Out of the most recent animated movies you've seen, which was your favorite?

Finding Nemo

5) What relatively obscure animated series and/or movie do you think deserves/deserved more attention than it gets/got?

I agree with you there Glenner, Robin Hood was one of my favorite movies

6) What would say is the most overrated animated series and/or movie?

dunno never read much reviews

7) What do you think about CG (computer generated) animation?

doesnt matter as long as its a good movie

8) What do you think about anime?

Never watched it, doesnt make sense, and I'm never going to watch it.