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Thread: Martin the Warrior: One Messed-up Mouse

  1. #1
    Patroller: General LordTBT's Avatar
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    Martin the Warrior: One Messed-up Mouse

    A thread at Terrouge gave me some introspection on Redwall I'd never had before.

    This is a brief character analysis of Martin I drew up. Be warned, there are spoilers about his life here.

    In Martin's life, he has experienced way more psychologically than most characters or even people. His father left, and was never heard of again when he was young. His mother was killed. He and his grandmother were captured, and she died. Then, the femme fatale he fell in love with Rose, was also murdered.

    This says a lot. It explains a lot, and I hadn't taken a step back to look at this picture before. If you remember, in Martin the Warrior, he started off being quite angry, but we don't blame him because he was captured as a slave.

    However, he has some deep, DEEP emotional and psychological trauma. Everyone he loved died, and none of them died because of natural causes. Every creature he loved died through the hands of vermin. He was a ticked off little mouse. This is also seen in Mossflower, particularly when he is around Tsarmina. I would give some more specific examples, I just don't have the books at my current location. He has some serious mental issues though, that's undeniable.

    It's fair to say this anger is a result of all this loss. First, his father left and his mother died. Then his grandmother died. Finally, as Martin finds someone to start a family with himself, that "woman" dies too.

    He has a complete despise of all vermin, which probably comes from the fact that an evil creature has killed off important people in his life. One might go as far to say that Martin experiences pleasure from engaging battle with enemies, as he was incredibly amped to fight alongside Boar the Fighter. This pleasure he feels comes from the feeling that he is stopping future tragedies, and we see this continues in the series as he appears to future Redwall warriors, wanting them to stop baddies too.
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    Patroller: General Bladeswift's Avatar
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    All the more reason why I consider him one of the best mice, as well as warriors, in the series.

    As for him appearing to guide others in dreams, I think he's doing it more out of his concern for others than his hatred of vermin.

  3. #3
    Dibbun Jason Caits-Cheverst's Avatar
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    However, we do see a strong streak of fatalism in him in his ability to take the path to meet his father without lashing out when he is asked to demonstrate his swordsmanship - an ability which centres wholly around the fact that so many people he knew have been murdered. I refer of course to The Legend of Luke, in which Martin is naught but a pacifistic figure.

    Also, Martin hung up his blade and lived a life of peace in Redwall Abbey. Evidently his trauma was at least eased by the residents there, enough to combine with his good-natured fatalism to inspire him to stop fighting evil.

    Just a couple of little insights. ^_^

  4. #4
    Patroller: General LordTBT's Avatar
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    Well I said "stopping future tragedies"

    Also, Martin hung up his blade and lived a life of peace in Redwall Abbey
    Well as far as we know. That's a story all in itself...Martin may have had to pick up the sword one more time.
    Last edited by LordTBT; January 31st, 2005 at 03:30 PM.
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    Of course, but I like the idea that he found closure- part of what "The Legend of Luke" is about in my opinion. He's definately one of Brian's most interesting characters. I think it's a testament to Brian's growth as a writer that the character of Martin, the strong but silent likeable warrior of "Mossflower", has bloomed into a far more complex character. Parental figures are very important in Redwall- and in the Castaways series also, but in a subtly different way. One might hypothesise that the absense of his father as he grew up led to him trying to model himself as a warrior, to be like the father he never knew, and that once he discovered what had happened to his father he was able to let go of this and finally hang up his sword. The death of female figures in his life is undoubtedly significant. After the murder of his mother his grandmother took over the maternal role but following her death this position is left vacant. TBT, I'm not sure I agree with your description of Rose as a femme fatale; she actually becomes in many ways another maternal figure. Of course she dies and eventually this role is taken over by other characters such as Bella, Abbess Germaine and interestingly Columbine. Remember how Gonff says in TLoL how sometimes it is only she who can speak to him. Ultimately I believe that the abbey community fills the emotional hole left by the lost family, providing parents and siblings to someone who has always lacked them. It is a pleasing resolution.

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    Patroller: General LordTBT's Avatar
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    Ultimately I believe that the abbey community fills the emotional hole left by the lost family, providing parents and siblings to someone who has always lacked them. It is a pleasing resolution.
    Ultimately....maybe. I don't think years of therapy could help him.
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    Patroller Rolinko's Avatar
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    Maybe that's why he haunts the Abbey for all eternity.

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    Patroller: General Cheesethief's Avatar
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    He doesn't, really. He appears in times of great need (admittedly, this is quite often), but I wouldn't say that's all eternity.

    I thought Timballisto, in some respects Martin's best friend, died of old age.
    Everyone he loved died, and none of them died because of natural causes.
    So this is wrong, but I appreciate you don't have the books to hand.

    I'm not sure I agree with your description of Rose as a femme fatale; she actually becomes in many ways another maternal figure. Of course she dies and eventually this role is taken over by other characters such as Bella, Abbess Germaine and interestingly Columbine. Remember how Gonff says in TLoL how sometimes it is only she who can speak to him.
    I agree there Keyla. I guess if one read the books from a ertain point of view, there could even be a sort of "love triangle" going on. Perhaps.
    But you're right in saying Rose is equally caring as she is love interest to Martin. She's the cool one in MTW.
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    Patroller: General LordTBT's Avatar
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    So this is wrong, but I appreciate you don't have the books to hand.
    ok mr anal retentive i think it was to be assumed i meant family or love interests not friends.
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    Patroller Candied Chesnut's Avatar
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    the loss of family at a young age seems very common in redwall. many of the main characters have deceased parents. matthias lost both his parents, dannflor lost his mom, tagg and triss lost their fathers, mariel lost her mother to unknown reasons, and grath lost all her family. others, like dandin, samkim, and arven, just seem to hang at the abbey. their parents are never mentioned, so maybe their orphans as well. or maybe theyre just unimportant characters.

    if i put myself in martins shoes, i would also have a deep hatred toward vermin. but then again, dont all the furry creatures of mossflower and surrounding land harbor a dislike for vermin as well?
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    Patroller shadowmoon's Avatar
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    And Finnbarr Galedeep, he lost his sons and wife and he was really angry as well. So Martin can be excused for being so violent. And in the end he hung his sword so he turned peaceful. There are heaps of characters like this in fantasy. eg. in Druss the Legend by David Gemmell Druss lost his wife and scourged the world to find her.
    Spoiler!
    but he had tasted killing so he continued to be like a mercenery by only for the good guys
    Spoiler!
    So compared to others like that Martin isn't that bad.

    NOTE: Anyone who hasnt read Druss the Legend and would like to do so should NOT read the spoilers
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    Patroller Lonna Bowstripe's Avatar
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    the loss of family at a young age seems very common in redwall.
    It actually seems to be the fad right now. Look at Harry Potter, Eragon, the Baudeliares, Frodo, ect.
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    Patroller: General LordTBT's Avatar
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    So Martin can be excused for being so violent

    I don't think it's excusable per se, we just allow it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesethief
    I thought Timballisto, in some respects Martin's best friend, died of old age. So this is wrong, but I appreciate you don't have the books to hand.
    Tim ballisto died young didn't he?
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    Patroller Rolinko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesethief
    He doesn't, really. He appears in times of great need (admittedly, this is quite often), but I wouldn't say that's all eternity.
    The abbey will always have times of great need as long as vermin walk the earth and and the world turns. That's virtually all eternity. I'm talking time span, not frequency. And Martin isn't getting any older.
    I thought Timballisto, in some respects Martin's best friend, died of old age. So this is wrong, but I appreciate you don't have the books to hand.
    Yet recall that Martin said he and Tim didn't really talk much from the time they were reunited in Mossflower to when Tim died, somewhere between Mossflower and The Legend of Luke (wrong, blankey_boy, sorry). This could easily support that Martin was already "one messed-up mouse" due to the events of his life in and before Martin the Warrior. Developed slight antisocial tendencies, awkward when confronted with tragedies of youth, that kind of thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Candied Chesnut
    matthias lost both his parents...
    Don't forget, Matthias's parents' demises are undisclosed (like many characters' parents). Don't confuse with TV show, where he was given a history, where Cluny killed them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lonna Bowstripe
    It actually seems to be the fad right now. Look at Harry Potter, Eragon, the Baudeliares, Frodo, ect.
    Don't forget, Frodo was around back in the '50s, he ain't new. So that means, neither is the "fad".
    Last edited by Rolinko; February 3rd, 2005 at 10:33 AM.

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