Ideal Redwall Movie?

[Worbee]

I live under a rock, so I honestly don't know any Hollywood producers or people.

But if Redwall were to be made into a movie, I personally prefer the CGI type. Nothing like Disney's Frozen or Tangled though, I feel that the characters are too childish.

I think CG adds a darker tone to Redwall. As we all know, there are some graphic moments in the series and 2D just doesn't seem to fit the piece for me. CG similar to Smaug in the Hobbit and Rocket Raccoon would be ideal for me.

I agree with you that Disney films like Tangled don't have the right look for Redwall...I think many of the CG family films don't. I also agree that using CG would be a very good option, maybe the best, now that I've thought about it some more since my last post. Doing really realistic animals would definitely fit with the tone of the books.

[Patchouli]

I agree with you that Disney films like Tangled don't have the right look for Redwall...

More like Disney all together wouldn't really fit Redwall... xD

[Mulchior Lancer]

If Redwall had the depth of CG animation as Rocket Raccoon, I'd be more than willing to accept it. While I prefer the look of 2D animation, there's no denying how awesome it would be to see them in that style.

[T.W.]

I thought that the TV series was well animated, so I'd be alright with something similar to that. Regardless, I'd prefer it if the movie was a hand-drawn animation. It would give it a classic look like Watership Down or The Secret of NIMH. Disney or DreamWorks type CG wouldn't really fit Redwall. The super-accurate CGI like Reepicheep is nice, but I feel like that only works in a live action movie. It would look odd to have an entire world made of accurate CGI. I can't actually think of any movies that have done that, thought, so I could be wrong.

When Brian was alive, I always that he should write an original story for a movie. A story that wouldn't rely on past knowledge, but would be good for introducing new fans to the world of Redwall. That way you can avoid the problem of keeping to the book. Also, new fans wouldn't have to worry about the inconsistencies of the first book with the rest of the series like Ratdeath, animals not present in other books, and Wind in the Willows type names.

[Mulchior Lancer]

There’s one aspect of the Redwall movie we haven’t really touched on. Any book that’s adapted into a movie has tons of things changed about it for the theatrical release. Presumably, we’d see some sections to the book cut before becoming a film. What would you be okay with seeing cut from the Redwall film and still enjoy the movie?

I know this might sound controversial, but I’d be okay with seeing the section with the Sparra cut. The way with space works in the Abbey with the first book is a bit different from the rest of the series. It feels much larger than even a few books later. If they did keep the Sparra, I could see it moving to just outside the Abbey.

[Worbee]

There’s one aspect of the Redwall movie we haven’t really touched on. Any book that’s adapted into a movie has tons of things changed about it for the theatrical release. Presumably, we’d see some sections to the book cut before becoming a film. What would you be okay with seeing cut from the Redwall film and still enjoy the movie?

I know this might sound controversial, but I’d be okay with seeing the section with the Sparra cut. The way with space works in the Abbey with the first book is a bit different from the rest of the series. It feels much larger than even a few books later. If they did keep the Sparra, I could see it moving to just outside the Abbey.

Hmmm...I would certainly be okay with the part with the Sparra being significantly altered. If they were to shorten it, then I would downplay the degree of conflict between the Sparra and the Abbeybeasts, so that then it wouldn't seem that in the film they went from being almost enemies to being allies too quickly.

I could see cutting the death of Guosim. It might make things a little shorter if it were just Log-a-Log and Matthias on that adventure.

They could cut out one of the attempts by Cluny's horde to break into the abbey. I would want to keep the scene where Cluny falls and is so badly injured since it seems sort of unique to me for that to happen to a villain right in the middle of the story.

I think they could cut either Captain Snow or Squire Gingivere or both (though then they'd lose the connection with the Gingivere in Mossflower). I do like having a dignified older veteran or gentleman type who is less comical than Basil, but I don't think both those characters (and the story between them) would be essential for an adaptation.

[Mulchior Lancer]

I could see the Sparra getting cut completely then. Not much would be missing from Redwall or Mattimeo to be honest.

I could see them keeping Guosim’s death, to show the danger of facing Asmodeus. I know he creeps around for most of the story, but it might be good keeping the danger to the heroes.

The Abbey battles would certainly need some trimming. I think they’d have to keep Cluny getting hurt in order to set up Chickenhound for Mattimeo. Otherwise you miss out on his motivation.

For Captain Snow/Squire Gingivere, I can see them combining the two into Gingivere to keep the Mossflower connection. Snow really isn’t that important, even if he is a fun character.

[Worbee]

I could see the Sparra getting cut completely then. Not much would be missing from Redwall or Mattimeo to be honest.

Having thought about it some more I do see the sense in cutting out the Sparra, since they later drop out of the series and since their entirely separate nation existing above the Redwallers does feel a bit odd I think. Actually, focusing on the shrews instead of the Sparra might be a good way for the film to delve deeper without taking on too much.

On the other hand, having the injured Warbeak at the abbey is one of my favorite parts of the book, since Warbeak is an outsider who really ends up becoming a committed member of the Redwall family, and I enjoy seeing that happen. (Odd that the the username I picked sounds so much like 'Warbeak'...I was actually thinking of bees at the time.) So if the Sparra were cut than perhaps one of the shrews could take on more of that role. I like the idea of the movie showing Redwallers, even in the midst of a major struggle, still managing to aid and draw in many of those they encounter, whether it be Sparra, shrews, the Churchmouse family, etc. I guess what I find most interesting are the individual relationships, such as between Matthias and Warbeak or Log-a-Log. The relationships between the different species as a whole is less interesting to me, since the first book at least didn't convince me that the species had become more than wartime allies. So cutting Matthias' conflict with the Sparra would be fine with me. (On a side note, I think the Sparra could be included as basically a part of the unified Redwall community that, perhaps following a general trend at the abbey, had recently grown more distant from the community as a whole. But this would be changing Jacques' story from one about a strong community persevering during a struggle, to one about a community drawing closer because of the struggle. Plus, it would make a lot more sense for the shrews to have this sort of history based on what is shown in later books.)

Obviously, though, I ought not get too caught up in one aspect of the work. I do find other aspects of the story more important, such as how an honest, peaceful community deals with the sudden appearance of evil and violence, or how the past informs struggles in the future.

Thank you for your patience while I work through my rather complicated feelings on the matter. I may be rambling more than a little.

[Mulchior Lancer]

That’s a really well thought out response, Worbee. It hadn’t occurred to me how the impact of eliminating the Sparra would change things in terms of how Redwall helps in the midst of combat.

Again, I don’t want to see the Sparra cut, but I went to school for screenwriting and took a class on adaptation. Looking at the story from a screenwriter’s perspective, the Sparra would probably be cut (or heavily trimmed in some way). Warbeak and Matthias have a great relationship, especially once they learn how to trust each other. And the Sparra show why it’s important to show kindness to your enemies, as they can be turned into your allies over time.

[Schröder]

Playing devil's advocate here (because I personally would like the Sparra to stay), the same could be said with the Gousim, enemies at first, then growing to be allies. Granted, it is much quicker with them, but it could be drawn out a bit for the same effect.

[Mulchior Lancer]

That’s absolutely true as well. The issue is, what gets trimmed in the place of the Sparra?

First, what are the most important story beats that have to stay on any version of the story? From there, you can weed out what would most likely get cut. A screenwriter that adapts books into movies cuts any extra characters that they can or combines them into one. The same goes for unnecessary scenes until only the most essential elements remain.

[Worbee]

I do think Mulchior Lancer is absolutely right that cutting the Sparra makes good sense. In a 100-minute movie it would likely prove very awkward to have in-depth scenes with both the Sparra and the Guosim. The Sparra would almost surely need to have an altered role or be cut completely (depending on what other choices are made regarding the storyline).

Another option might be to have two or three Sparra hanging around the Abbey or Mossflower as background characters, just for the enjoyment of the audience or for any scenes where they might prove useful. Granted, the movie could be made rich and entertaining enough without them, but I wanted to throw that idea out there. It might be neat to have a Sparra character recount some version of how the sword and scabbard got separated and show that in flashback.

By the way, would the locations of any of the hidden artifacts of Martin the Warrior change for the movie? I could see this being done and it might be just as interesting.

I do agree with Shröder that, objectively, much of what could be done with the Sparra could also be done with the Guosim. Additionally, I could actually see shrews taking the place of characters such as the dormouse family at the end and maybe even Silent Sam.

[T.W.]

Well if you could always just trim the Sparra rather than cut them out completely. In the book, there is a significant amount of time between Matthias reaching the roof and him going to get the scabbard and falling from the roof in which he is imprisoned by King Bull Sparra. What if they trimmed it so that Matthias and Warbeak reach the rooftop and he befriends Dunwing who tells him that the King is out and the sword is lost but they still have the scabbard. That way, you keep the development and plot, but drop the extra time.

When you think about it, Redwall is actually fairly compressible. More so than the other books in the series, at least. Maybe it's because Redwall has a rather centralized plot, as opposed to the later books which followed multiple plots that converged, but it feels like less happens in the same amount of time in that book. I'd imagine the movie would be about 120 minutes. That's equal to about 5 or 6 episodes of the 13 episode TV series, 3 of which were original plotlines. I haven't read the first book in some time, but wouldn't you only have to cut out one or two Cluny attacks, the Sparra scenes I mentioned, and maybe speed up Matthias and Methuselah solving some of the riddles.

Now that I think of it, there really isn't any need for them to spend significant time on solving the riddles.

[Mulchior Lancer]

I do think Mulchior Lancer is absolutely right that cutting the Sparra makes good sense. In a 100-minute movie it would likely prove very awkward to have in-depth scenes with both the Sparra and the Guosim. The Sparra would almost surely need to have an altered role or be cut completely (depending on what other choices are made regarding the storyline).

Another option might be to have two or three Sparra hanging around the Abbey or Mossflower as background characters, just for the enjoyment of the audience or for any scenes where they might prove useful. Granted, the movie could be made rich and entertaining enough without them, but I wanted to throw that idea out there. It might be neat to have a Sparra character recount some version of how the sword and scabbard got separated and show that in flashback.

By the way, would the locations of any of the hidden artifacts of Martin the Warrior change for the movie? I could see this being done and it might be just as interesting.

I do agree with Shröder that, objectively, much of what could be done with the Sparra could also be done with the Guosim. Additionally, I could actually see shrews taking the place of characters such as the dormouse family at the end and maybe even Silent Sam.

Having the Sparra integrated somehow with the Abbey could work. I mean, I’d be sad to see Warbeak completely cut out. Perhaps they’re outside the Abbey somewhere, and Matthias could take care of that while Basil and Jess rescue the tapestry?

For changes to the artifacts, I could see them doing away with Martin’s shield. It’s just as easy to give Matthias a normal shield, considering this is the only book where it makes a significant appearance (a small pet peeve of mine, as I wish we saw more of it). I do think it’s important for Matthias to find the scabbard without the sword first though, as well as the Tomb of Martin.

I can see a shrew taking the place of the dormice, but not Sam. Especially if they want to make Mattimeo, unless they add him at the epilogue.

Well if you could always just trim the Sparra rather than cut them out completely. In the book, there is a significant amount of time between Matthias reaching the roof and him going to get the scabbard and falling from the roof in which he is imprisoned by King Bull Sparra. What if they trimmed it so that Matthias and Warbeak reach the rooftop and he befriends Dunwing who tells him that the King is out and the sword is lost but they still have the scabbard. That way, you keep the development and plot, but drop the extra time.

When you think about it, Redwall is actually fairly compressible. More so than the other books in the series, at least. Maybe it's because Redwall has a rather centralized plot, as opposed to the later books which followed multiple plots that converged, but it feels like less happens in the same amount of time in that book. I'd imagine the movie would be about 120 minutes. That's equal to about 5 or 6 episodes of the 13 episode TV series, 3 of which were original plotlines. I haven't read the first book in some time, but wouldn't you only have to cut out one or two Cluny attacks, the Sparra scenes I mentioned, and maybe speed up Matthias and Methuselah solving some of the riddles.

Now that I think of it, there really isn't any need for them to spend significant time on solving the riddles.

T.W., I completely agree that of all the books, Redwall is the easiest to turn into a movie for the very reasons you list. Unlike the other books, Redwall is really just about Matthias and his quest. The others have a varying degree of main characters in addition to the Abbey Warrior. This makes it much easier on the adaptor to create a narrow focus for the plot and build a character arc. Rarely does Redwall venture to places besides the Abbey and St. Ninians.

For shortening the riddles, I can see that happening, but I think one of them should still happen. Riddles and Redwall go paw in paw, so I think cutting them completely would be a disservice to the series. Redwall is just as much about using your noggin as it is using your swordpaw.

As I mentioned before, film adaptations are difficult, as you can’t make everyone happy. I’m sure we all have favorite books that have been cut up thanks to the screenwriter. One of my favorite scenes in the whole Narnia series was cut out of Prince Caspian in favor of a needless castle invasion, but I understand why they did it. I’d be very apprehensive in trying my hand at a version of Redwall, much less the other stories in the series.

[Patchouli]

To tell the truth, I'd actually like to see the series redone as a cartoon. More room for adventure! Maybe they could animate The Taggerung and The Long Patrol along the way... :P